Posted on 01/31/2005 8:55:18 AM PST by sionnsar
The Paul quote has been referred to a couple times... can you quote it for me so I know the context?
1 Corinthians 14:34 (King James Version)
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
I thought I made it pretty clear when I said "No I don't".
I simply think Paul had little use for women. Then again, he was speaking for himself while in his big "I" mode.
Classic Paul - speaking for himself:
1 Corinthians:7
[1] Now concerning the matters about which you wrote. It is well for a man not to touch a woman.
[2] But because of the temptation to immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.
[3] The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband.
[4] For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does.
[5] Do not refuse one another except perhaps by agreement for a season, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, lest Satan tempt you through lack of self-control.
[6] I say this by way of concession, not of command.
[7] I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.
[8] To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do.
[9] But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion.
[10] To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband
[11] (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband) -- and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
[12] To the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.
Do you have any doubt concerning Paul's attitude towards women?
1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 1Cr 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
In my mind, this passage implies that it is not all that vital that women learn anything.... they aren't really whole people ;~D They probably weren't really free to speak anywhere.
Reading the wider passage from the beginning (link) this is just one of the passages that I think is really only a rudimentary translation. It has the choppy cadence that reminds me more of babelfish translations than language that has actually been translated in meaning as well as in words. It speaks of talking in foreign tongues... and the risk of not understanding what was said... so I think I'll take my lesson from that today. I'll probably just dig myself in a big hole if I go any further... I was just prompted to speak of my experience.
That caught my eye too.
And wasn't there a time when women who died in childbirth were buried in unholy ground?
I will get flamed for this,
but Paul is my least favorite of the Apostles just for that...
He really, REALLY doesn't like women and that is why I am very uncomfortable reading him.
Well, you know me, I'd always advocate that you dig further. ;-)
But you've hit on an important truth. We all interpret scripture in light of our experiences. That's not the best way to do it because we need to dig and read what it really says.
The problem I see with this particular passage is trying to "proof-text" a stance without reading everything in context.
That's not a judgement as to whether the thought behind it is right or wrong. But it's a caution not to build and entire philosophy on the basis of one phrase.
End of sermon. Let us stand and sing.
~smiles~
You know... I do think it's important to learn the difference between what ~they~ thought and what ~I~ think.... But I seem to have the benefit or handicap of a pretty loud inner voice that has an opinion about the truth of many matters. I haven't had it lead me astray often. I don't think.
I'll let you know if it does. ;-)
He really, REALLY doesn't like women and that is why I am very uncomfortable reading him.
Have no fear. Once you get past Paul's misogynistic attitude he is rather interesting.
OTOH, We wouldn't have an overpopulation problem if people had listened to him. He thought women were "icky" and no man should have anything to do with them.
Add me to your list, another woman against women's ordination.
I tend to be put off by FemiNazi-instigated initiatives. Thanks for the ping.
Are you suggesting that Paul has an unscriptural or incorrect opinion of women and that when he speaks of women he is just plain wrong and therefore that the scripture can be broken. Are you suggesting that only Paul seems to present women as having a different role to play than men or that they should be in submission too men? Do you also believe that much of what the bible says of genders and other things only applies to the time inwhich it was written but not for us because both of these statements echo the same thinking as to interpretation of the bible.
Paul writes affectionately to many sisters. I think he was talking about just a few chatty women in the church of Corinth. No one talks during our worship, which simplifies matters regarding this issue.
My apologies - I had you confused with a FR female Pastor
Would you be satisfied with a simple "yes" or "no" answer to your compound question(s)? No can do.
Let Paul speak for himself:
1 Corinthians:7
[1] Now concerning the matters about which you wrote. It is well for a man not to touch a woman. ...
29: I mean, brethren, the appointed time has grown very short; from now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none,
Scriptural or Paul's opinion?
Sorry but I'm not offended by anything that Paul says so answering with scripture doesn't tell me much. I just suspect that you are like so many others who don't have much time for the bible.
Whatever you say Paul Jr.
Is calling me Paul Jr supposed to be an insult because I can scarcely think of a much better compliment. Except for the obvious. Now if you meant it as an insult, this really tells me a lot about your relationship with the bible.
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