Taken from YOUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHECY.
p. 359:
"Glenn Foster shares this interesting thought: "The prophet Samuel told King Saul that the kingdom of Israel was torn from him by the Lord that day. Yet twenty-four years passed before David was crowned King of Israel. When God spoke that word by His prophet, it was a settled fact in the spiritual realm. But it took a process of time before it was evidenced in the natural realm." 4
4 Foster, Glenn. The Purpose and Use of Prophecy. Glendale, Ariz.: Sweetwater, 1988. p 93.
PERSISTENTLY the cessationists rant that prophecy ceased once the last word was scribed in the last sentence of Revelation. Certainly this is an UNBiblical assertion fabricated from the whole cloth of their own biases and assumptions. IT IS ALSO PLAINGLY UNTRUE HISTORICALLY --as the following from the Didache illustrates. The quote is again from YOUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHECY p. 323:
The Didache, dating from the last half of the first century, instructed the early Christians to beware of prophets who demanded money and wanted to make extended visits to the local church, thereby abusing hospitality. 34 The first-century Church, it seems was more "concerned with discerning prophets [and motives] rather than prophecies. The warnings of the epistles are directed toward false prophets, not specific false prophecies." 35
4. Does this person display the fruit of the Holy Spirit in his or her life? Galatians 5 contrasts the "deeds of the flesh" (verse 19) and the "fruit of the Spirit" verse 22). All of us respond more positively to a prophecy if we sense in that person a loving humility that reflects the life of Jesus. Does this person's life add up? Does he or she demonstrate the character of Christ? Some call this "the moral test," and it is an important one. The Didache says that "not everybody making ecstatic utterances is a prophet, but only if he behaves like the Lord" (11:8) and that "every prophet who teaches the truth but fails to practice what he preaches is a false prophet" (11:10). True prophecy produces fruit in character and conduct consistent with the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
[end of p. 323 quotes from YSADSP]
34 Kydd, Ronald A. N. Charismatic Gifts in the Early Church. Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 1984. pp 6-11; The Didache 11:4-6, 12.
35 Yocum, Bruce. Prophecy: Exercising the Prophetic Gifts of the Spirit in the Church Today. Ann Arbor, Mich.: Servant 1976. p63.
[PERSISTENTLY THE CESSATIONIST NAYSAYERS INSIST that there's nothing any Believer needs to know that's not in The Bible. I guess they don't think God should give advice on whom to marry; which of two attractive jobs to take; whether to stay in the current city or move to a distant one; etc. Evidently they'd be much more comfortable with Believers getting such counsel from the ungodly counselors, economic advisors and the like??? As the following illustration from history--found on p322 in YSADSP shows rather dramatically how useful and even critical timely prophecy from Holy Spirit can be in the lives of believers.]
[#4 of a list of items in the book advising about good guidelines regarding determining whether a prophecy is a good one or not.]
4. Does the prophecy have value within specific limits of time and space? Robeck calls this "context specificity" and points out (using as an illustration Agabus' foretelling of a famine) that sometimes a prophecy has certain limitations. "and the ability to test the prophetic gift adequately also lies within that context." 30 As it happened, the church at Antioch exercised faith in the prophet and rallied to the immediate challenge. To respond later with an offering would have been too late.
Another "limited-time" prophecy was apparently given to the church at Jerusalem just before the city was put under siege by the Roman general Titus. According to Eusebius, the third-century historian, all the believers fled from Jerusalem in response to prophecy, thereby saving their lives. The city was destroyed shortly thereafter in A.D. 70. "The whole body, hoever, of the church at Jerusalem having been commanded by a divine revelation, given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city, and dwelt at a certain town beyond the Jordan, called Pella." 31
30 Robeck, Cecil M. Jr, "Gift of Prophecy," p. 733, Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements by Stanley M. Burgess, Gary B McGee and Patrick H. Alexander. Used by permission of Zondervan Publishing House.
31 Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1981), p. 86.
A good comment on potentially flawed prophecies is also found on p 174 of YSADSP:
To be judged. We will discuss fully the subject of testing prophetic utterances in chapters 20 and 21. Three Scripture passages (1 Corinthians 14:29, 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 and 1 John 4:1, each of which we will examine in those chapters) teach that Christian prophecies should be judged or evaluated. This implies, of course, that prophecy can have error [particularly in the NT when all believers are indwelt by Holy Spirit vs the lone or a few particularly indwelt individuals in the OT at any given time--Qx]. False prophecy is troublesome for a local congregation, but there are also the challenges of impure, weak or "sloppy" prophecy given by sincere but untrained people. 31 Even the content of "good" prophecy must be guaged by whether the utterance is inspired in general content or exact wording.
p174
31 See the practical discussion by Yocum [listed above], Prophecy, chapter 7. He focuses from a [Roman] Catholic charismatic viewpoint on the role of the Christian community in testing and forming prophets who can be trusted . . .
[Qx: Another example of an OLD TESTAMENT prophecy that did not come to pass without the prophet being stoned or considered false is mentioned on p 397 at footnote 37 in YSADSP]:
37. Ellison, Men Spake, p. 18. Nineveh was not destroyed, and we understand why because of the book of Jonah. Ellison also points out that the judgment of Tyre, Egypt and Babylon were all "suspended."
[Qx: I can hear the cessationist naysayers crying "That's different." No, it's not. Many modern day prophecies result in the same folks crying FALES PROPHET when a prophecy 'fails' for a similar reason. Much prophecy is given so that prayer and/or repentance can forestall the prophecies coming to pass].
[Qx: Some other good refs to the Church in the first centuries A.D. are]:
p388
10. Stanley M. Burgess deals with the tension between prophecy and form in a fine study of the Church from the end of the first century. A.D. to the end of the fifth century. The Spirit and the Church: Antiquity (Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 1984). Also see chapter 15 in this book.
11. See M. Eugene Boring, The Continuing Voice of Jesus: Christian Prophecy & the Gospel Tradiation (Louisville: Westminster/John Knox, 1991), chapter 1. Also see Aune, David E. Prophecy in Early Christianity, chapter 9, and "Christian Prophecy and Sayings of Jesus," New Testament Studies 29 (1982), pp. 104-112.
[Qx: Also interesting is this note found on p388]:
27. Scripture itself seems to take in stride certain prophecy that was not fulfilled verbatim and could be classified as inspired or Spirit-quickened but not God-breathed or inscripturated. Agabus' "thus saith the Spirit" prophecy was fulfilled in meaning but not in minute detail of actual words used (see Acts 21:11, 33).
[QX: Another useful ref]:
David Pytches' chapter 15, "Prophecy during the Dark Ages," and his chapters 16-19, which talk about the French prophets (A.D. 1500-1600) . . .
[QX: And]:
Ronald A. N. Kydd, Charismatic Gifts in the Early Church: An Exploration into the Gifts of the Spirit during the First Three Centuries of the Christian Church (Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 1984). Also see Burgess, Spirit and the Church.
[Qx: I also like Gentile's comment on p31 of YSADSP quoting R Joyner]:
"Most of what is called 'prophecy' today is on the lowest level of prophetic revelation, which is the impression level. These are general revelations that we have to put words to. Personally, I do not add the addendum 'thus saith the Lord' to what is in fact an impression that I have expressed in my own words. The word of the Lord is precious, and the last thing I want to do is put my words in His mouth. . . . In fact, it is debatable whether we ever need to include such a statement in our propheies today. . . . We might be trusted with far more authority and higher levels of revelation if we start calling impressions just what they are, and do not so freely misuse those precious words 'thus saith the Lord.'" 26
[Qx: I strongly agree. And the best I've known--whenever they VERY RARELY said--THE LORD IS SAYING/TELLING ME . . . It always came to pass exactly as they said it would. Their IMPRESSIONS, on the other hand could have a routine accuracy of around 80-85% or so, in my experience].
26 Joyner, R., Prophetic Ministry, pp. 117-118.
[QX: Gentile notes that perhaps we should demand 100% accuracy in preaching! p. 389 LOL.]
CESSATIONIST NAYSAYERS persistently talk as though ****ALL**** Biblical era prophecies were involved with confirming THE SCRIPTURES. That, too, is simply untrue, false, wrong.
A note on p395 touches on this:
. . . "The Old Testament makes no obviouis attempt to distinguish the activities of the early prophets from those of the writing prophets, and in fact, the same titles are given to both groups." R. R. Wilson, "Early Israelite Prophecy," Interpretation 32 (1978), p.7. This can also be said in evaluating Old versus New Testament prophets.
Qx: Cessationist naysayers persistently claim that there's NO REASON for modern day prophecy. The following source is a good, factual, historical proof of the nonsense of such a claim:
. . . "Jane Rumph's compilation of forth true, dramatic accounts of worldwide conversions resulting from "power evangelism" (which includes prophecy), Stories from the Front Lines.
p. 402
Qx: Enough of my roamings amongst the refs and underlinings tonight.
May all those of a teachable spirit, heart; and the least bit of fair-mindedness be enlighted BY HOLY SPIRIT regarding these matters. May all biases and blinders be silenced in the face of Holy Spirit's speaking to the hearts, spirits and minds of any and all readers.
Blessings,
Thanks for the ping!