Father Zigrang suspended by Bishop Joseph Fiorenza

Christ or Chaos ^ | 15th July 2004 | Dr Thomas Droleskey

[sinkspur]

Vennari's an integrist.

I'm no fan of Bruskewitz, but to accuse him of nefariousness for attending the installation of a Methodist bishop is psychotic.

And, the Charismatic Renewal is firmly grounded in Scripture, and its "fruits" have been proven over 30 years of prayer and witness. Bruskewitz is right to allow it to bloom, with the full blessing of the Church.

As I said, Vennari is an integrist, and makes himself look silly with this attack on the most straight-laced, ultra-orthodox, bishop in the United States.

[narses]

"...attending the installation of a Methodist bishop is _____"

Fill in the blank, is it:

Catholic?

[rogator]

"As soon as the Priest was found in a homosexual act (with an adult), he was gone right away. "

Weakland and Ryan are still around confirming kids and performing other bishoply duties.

[sinkspur]

Yes. It's fully Catholic.

If you guys are going to sink to the level of berating Fabian Bruskewitz, then it can be truly said that an element of Free Republic has taken leave of its senses and gone over to the dark side of Lefebvre and the sedevacantists.

I told the Moderators earlier today that this website has degenerated into a Pope-bashing, Bishop-trashing circus that celebrates a Catholic reactionarionism detached from common sense.

With this thread, I rest my case.

[Antoninus]

Well, I'll let folks judge for themselves. This is, after all, your post:

I judge Siobhan's post to be utterly innocuous and certainly not worthy of turning it into a bludgeoun to beat her with.

Since when is that an appropriate way to treat a lady?

[ultima ratio]

Bruskewitz is not a traditional Catholic. The mere fact that he supports the Novus Ordo speaks to this. Nothing more needs to be said about where he is coming from. In fact, there is no such thing as a traditional Catholic bishop outside of the SSPX.

[sinkspur]

You're late to the game. I suggest you read the entire thread.

[Antoninus]

On second thought, this action was not surprising. Fiorenza was probably getting pressure from other bishops to make an example out of Zigrang to deter other priests from instruction by SSPX. The traditional movement is growing. The bishops can no longer ignore it. Something must be done to stop it.

The more the temporal powers try to squash Christianity, the more it grows. It's all right there in the history books.

[narses]

Enjoy your rest. You defend the Charismatics, here is what an Archbishop said:

Archbishop Dwyer of the United States rightly warned, "We regard it bluntly as one of the most dangerous trends in the Church in our time, closely allied in spirit with other disruptive and divisive movements threatening grave harm to unity and damage to countless souls."

Your problem Deacon is you defend a regime that is at odds with 2,000 years of truth and history. The 'fruits' of the movement you defend are seen today, and they are fruits, not fruitful, just sodomaniacal fruits.

[narses]

"If you guys are going to sink to the level of berating Fabian Bruskewitz, ..."

Where was that done? You defend the ecumenical activities of the Bp, I simply help expose them. Others deny them. Let the truth be heard Deacon.

[sinkspur]

Your problem Deacon is you defend a regime that is at odds with 2,000 years of truth and history. The 'fruits' of the movement you defend are seen today, and they are fruits, not fruitful, just sodomaniacal fruits.

I never thought I'd ever say this, in my lifetime, but I'll stand with Bishop Bruskewitz in defending the Charismatic Renewal, the attendance at a Methodist bishop's installation, and a Jewish seder supper.

I'm commanded to charity, narses, so I'll just leave it at that.

[sinkspur]

You defend the ecumenical activities of the Bp

I do defend them.

I also defend the ecumenical activities of John Paul II.

How do you expect Catholics to reach those outside our Faith, narses? Hellfire and brimstone?

[narses]

I never thought I'd ever say this, in my lifetime, but I'll stand with Bishop Bruskewitz in defending the Charismatic Renewal, the attendance at a Methodist bishop's installation, and a Jewish seder supper.

I appreciate your charity Deacon. If you can, will you explain the phrase "I never thought I'd ever say this"?

[narses]

"How do you expect Catholics to reach those outside our Faith, narses?"

How? The way we did for 1962 years before V2. Why was it WRONG to attend, support and participate in pagan, heretical and schismatic services for 195 decades and then VOILA`, excepting the SSPX, all is OK? God changed? The Church changed?

[Antoninus]

Solemn Mass of the Assumption - Immaculate Conception Cathedral - August 15, 2003 - Members of Mater Ecclesiae and supporters (Pyro7480's note: Note the red banners of Tradition, Family, Property in the left background)

I was at that mass! It was beyond beautiful and I have the privilege of hearing attending Mass most weeks with two of the priests in the photograph.

Gloria in excelsis Deo!

[sinkspur]

I had no idea Bruskewitz was so "Catholic" in his acceptance of ecumenism and the Charismatic Renewal.

He's still a bit stiff for my tastes, but I've developed a new appreciation for his willingness to let many flowers bloom.

Thanks for posting that article from the integrist Vennari.

[sinkspur]

Why was it WRONG to attend, support and participate in pagan, heretical and schismatic services for 195 decades and then VOILA`, excepting the SSPX, all is OK? God changed? The Church changed?

The Church's understanding has developed. It has caught up with God's understanding.

[Antoninus]

I suspect it's to appease the golfers with morning tee times and others who simply like to get it over with.

With all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about. If you knew the priest in question, you'd be embarrassed that you made such an accusation.

[sinkspur]

In fact, there is no such thing as a traditional Catholic bishop outside of the SSPX.

There are no schismatic bishops outside the SSPX.

[Antoninus]

So if we are to go about saying the Church is in crisis, we need to be aware that this is not at all obvious to 999 out of 1000 Catholics.

I didn't either until I pulled my head out of the sand. Now, on occasion, I'm so sickened by what I see that I have to put my head back in just to keep from donning sack-cloth and ashes and showing up on the front steps of a church every now and then. Then again, maybe that's what's needed....