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To: Ronzo
Reconsider your arguments, but that reconsideration needs to be performed by faith through Him. Otherwise such thoughts merely scar the soul (not a criticism, a simple observation....if I may,...)

God knows who are his ....no way we can know this information unless we have access to the mind and foresight of God, which none of us do.

By faith in Him, this may be known. Consider Rom 3:22. Doubts upon one's salvation are an indicator of having been out of fellowship with Him,..one method and stage of divine discipline. Hebrews read in one sitting provides doctrine regarding this matter.

< faith must be accompanied by deeds in order to be valid.

Faith is non-meritorious, precisely one reason why God may use our faith and make it efficacious for salvation, purely from His work. There is a difference in the faith of salvation which is not removed, and a contiuing sanctification by walking in faith, producing divinely good works. Our inheritance and rewards are different than the issue of salvation.

Christ already died on the Cross for all sin, past, present, and future. He was judged on the cross for all sin. Our personal forgiveness of our personal sins occurs upon our acceptance of that redemption by simple faith alone in Him. Anything else added to that faith produces something other than faith alone, and isn't the stuff which may be used by the Holy Spirit to regenerate our human spirit.

Notice that Jesus does not ask them if they'd said the Sinner's Prayer, ... Alway he judged them on is what they did in His name.

The Great White Throne Judgment mentions 2 books, a Book of Names and a Book of Works. In the case of unbelievers, their names are blotted out of the Book of names. But remember, sin is no longer the issue. Sin was imputed upon Christ on the Cross. He bore the judgment of all sin throughout all of mankind, past, present and future. Where somebody has not had faith in Jesus Christ, their names are not listed. Now, a second set of books are opened. A book of Works is also referenced. This is in part because Christ settled the judgment of sin by His sacrificial atonement and propitiation for our sin. The issues of good and evil have never yet been settled.

Those who attempt to live a life without faith in Him, now are allowed an evidenciary hearing and judgment purely upon their works. The only problem is that wherever their works lack divine righteousness, they are simply good for nothingness or PONEROS. Those works not performed through faith in Him are then burnt up and those remaining without those divine good works have no salvation from condemnation. Meanwhile those with faith in Him, even once in their lives, for even a split second, still have eternal life.

Eternal life is not the rewards which God has predestined for us, rather even richer glory lies awaiting every believer in heaven.

The warnings not to give up our inheritance simply point to how, should we fall away from Him, disobey, sin, fall out of fellowship from Him, act not in faith, then we simply leave those rewards in heaven as an eternal memorial to the consequence of evil and human good independent of God. Whenever we might sin, we can in no ways ever remove the saving work of Christ, nor the regeneration of the human spirit by the Holy Spirit, nor is God able to remove that which He has already performed by His own character for us, but the post salvation sinner doesn't get away with anything. The post salvation sins merely table some of those eternal rewards for all eternity. In many cases where those eternal rewards are predesitned in His plan for other agents of grace, they may even be given to others in the fulfillment of His plan.

Paul is not preaching a conditional salvation based upon works, or contiueing faith, rather he points out that those who stray from the faith are disciplined and if continuously in rebellion may face the sin unto death or removal from this world because they are not serving any useful function. Salvation isn't conditioned with believers, but fiture inheritance and rewards are conditioned in our receipt upon our remining faithful and in deed.

For the unbeliever, the admonitions are directed towards those who are soulish, lacking spirit, simply telling them point blank, no matter what their argument, their eternal state in heaven will not be given to those who are immoral. So it's not a mistake, a series of mistakes, or even a character flaw that will keep us from being saved; rather, it is willful rebellion against the gospel.

Now if this is in true, then rejection of faith alone, even for one moment in willful rebellion would be sufficient to deny salvation. On the contrary, salvation is by faith alone.

For the CHurch Age believer this is significant because we now remain indwelt by each person of the Trinity. One of Satan's most powerful defenses is to encourage the believer to doubt their salvation, because then they fall away and out of faith in Him,..thereby not producing the powerful play made available to counter Satan or the fallen angels or their appeal in this Church Age.

89 posted on 06/05/2004 7:39:54 PM PDT by Cvengr (;^))
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To: Cvengr
Cvengr, Thanks so much for the time and effort you put in your rebuttal. You bring up some excellent points, and I wish I had the time to discuss this matter further. Personally, I think the following point is very crucial:

Paul is not preaching a conditional salvation based upon works, or contiueing faith, rather he points out that those who stray from the faith are disciplined and if continuously in rebellion may face the sin unto death or removal from this world because they are not serving any useful function. Salvation isn't conditioned with believers, but fiture inheritance and rewards are conditioned in our receipt upon our remining faithful and in deed.
Very well stated, and I believe there is valid grounds for taking such a view of things.

Thanks for you time Cvengr, have a bless summer!

90 posted on 06/06/2004 1:39:17 PM PDT by Ronzo (GOD bless all those families who lost a loved while serving in the American Armed Forces.)
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