PATRIARCH’S PARDON: Vartholomaios forgives Catholics for sack of Constantinople in 1204

ekathimerini.com ^ | Wednesday April 14, 2004 | ekathimerini.com

[Destro]

Wednesday April 14, 2004

PATRIARCH’S PARDON

Vartholomaios forgives Catholics for sack of Constantinople in 1204

Ecumenical Patriarch Vartholomaios yesterday forgave Catholics for the 1204 sack of Constantinople by crusaders from the Fourth Crusade during a liturgy in Istanbul marking the 800th anniversary of the event and attended by Cardinal Philippe Barbarin, Archbishop of Lyon. “We cannot forget that tragic day for Constantinople and for our Patriarchate but we forgive... and we accept with satisfaction the expression of their regret and the reassurance that the West will never again undertake such an abomination against the Christians of the East,” Vartholomaios said. “It is a fact that a great sin was committed against Constantinople 800 years ago,” Cardinal Barbarin said.

[Destro]

Justinian's observe legend preserved continuity with the Roman past. The Latin remained in use. The Emperor remained "Dominus Noster" and "Augustus." One century after Justinian I, these titles still remained in use. The Empire at Constantinople should not be called the "Byzantine Empire" at all. If it requires a special name, we might better name the Empire at Constantinople with the title of the "Romaion Empire" from the Greek "Basileia Romaion" [Empire of the Romaioi].

Clifton R. Fox
Professor of History
Tomball College
Tomball, TX, USA

[Romulus]

Exactly! the Pala D'Oro and the horses are looted treasure from the 4th crusade

The Patriarch's gonna croak when he sees what a storage bill for 800 years comes to.

[FBDinNJ]

Ha! Well I'm a history major @ Villanova University and everything you're stating is in direct contrast to the accepted thought on the situation oEf the Eastern mpire at the collapse of the Roman Empire. Even if the Emperor remained "Dominus Noster," the average person in the Eastern Empire would not have understood what that meant because they were all speaking Greek if not Syriac or Coptic.

I place my faith in my Professors and in Averil Cameron's books rather than in some Professor @ Tomball College

[Destro]

the average person in the Eastern Empire right down to the end called themselves "Romaioi". The Orthodox church considers itself the legate and defender of Rome of ROMIOSINI.

[FBDinNJ]

The average citizen in the Eastern Empire could have called themselves whatever they wanted to for all I care. But the fact that they considered themselves Roman was part of the problem, which led to the downfall of Roman Imperial power. This situation with an ever expanding group of people who held Roman citizenship eventually led to people from 'barbaria' attaining citizenship. This situation eventually led to Germanic tribes crossing the Rhine and eventually the sack of Rome and the downfall of the Western Empire.

Alright lets assume your premise is true that the Orthodox church considers itself the legate and defender of Rome. Just for the sake of argument lets say that's true.

They clearly didn't do a decent job then did they? Rome was not defended at all by her Eastern citizens, who quickly even revolted against the control of the Eastern Emperor as a result of the Monophysite heresy. These same people who betrayed the West eventually betrayed the east and helped the Islamic armies conquer formerly Christian lands. What kind of defense is that?

[Destro]

How can a good Catholic not be aware of St. Augustine's work the "City of God"? The Orthodox church is not a temporal power but a spiritual one and a legate of what is called ROMIOSINI. ROMIOSINI - ROMANITAS can not be explained with a few words.

The Patriarch, unlike Pope does not and did not command nor will ever command armies in the field like a temporal ruler.

Constantinople did a great job in defending Europe. She bore the brunt of Islamic expansion and converted the Russian and Slavic peoples to Christianity. She preserved the fruits of classical civilization for a later generation.

[MarMema]

Kristos Anesti!

The commentary outside FR on this has been fun. There are certainly a lot of trad-RC, like the blue army, etc, who are fuming and frothing at the mouth over this one. Tsk tsk.

Look for Seattle Catholic to have a scathing write-up soon.

It was nice of us to forgive them even if they have kept all the stolen loot and even sent it out to show it off on museum tours. Guess we can only ask so much. Money is money after all, and certainly that stuff is worth a lot by now.

[FBDinNJ]

What would you have preferred? That the Muslims got the relics and destroyed them? I mean look at what the Turks have done, they turned Haigi Sophia into a mosque and then a museum, and their whole plan of storing gun powder in the Parthenon while the Venetians were shooting rockets at the Acropolis wasn't the best idea ever either.

[FBDinNJ]

Well Destro I don't know about the acuracy of your statement, because the current Patriarch did serve in the military and was an officer in the Turkish military from 1961 till 1963.

Doesn't seem too spiritual to me.

[Destro]

He was not the Patriarch then, Nimrod. You are not born into teh clergy you know? Jesus.

[FBDinNJ]

Yes you're not born into the clergy, but it is the imperative of the Bishops of the Church to pick worthy leaders. The eastern Bishops clearly didn't care that Black Bart's record is definitely stained by the fact that he was in the military of the heathen Turks

[Destro]

Nope. Serving in the military is not a sin. St. George served in the Christian killing Pagan legions of the Roman empire.

[FBDinNJ]

Christians are supposed to refrain from serving in heathen Armies.

If you look at all early church documents it tells believers to refrain from serving in the military and this is a result of their being under pagan/heathen control. This ban was eventually lifted when the Roman Empire became Christian.

[MarMema]

I guess Christians can only serve when it's the Crusades...under the pope.

[Destro]

If this is a sin - Catholics beleive in perpetual sins?

[broadsword]

Oh, for crying out loud! The Muslims are hellbent upon destroying us and you guys (of both sides) want to fight over WHAT?

Damned ignorant fools. All of you! Get your acts together before the REAL enemy gloats over our charred corpses!

A dumba$$ ally is worse than a powerful enemy.