Posted on 08/30/2003 5:48:16 PM PDT by xzins
"Sexually Inclusive Christians" Celebrate Victories, Push for More
Mark Tooley August 22, 2003
When arguing for church acceptance of homosexuality, most advocates talk about monogamy. But others are bolder.
“I am a strong ally of those in healthy, polyamorous relationships,” declared Debra Kolodny. She argued that having multiple sexual partners can be “holy.” Kolodyn was leading a workshop at the WOW (Witness Our Welcome) 2003 convention, an ecumenical gathering for “sexually and gender inclusive Christians.”
Hundreds of homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual people gathered under the “queer” banner in Philadelphia August 14-17 to urge religious acceptance of non-traditional sexual behaviors.
According to WOW’s schedule brochure, it was sponsored by the homosexual caucus groups in most mainline Protestant denominations and Dignity USA (for Roman Catholics). Other supporting groups listed in the program included People for the American Way, the Human Rights Campaign, McCormick Theological Seminary (Presbyterian), Episcopal Divinity School, Chicago Theological Seminary (United Church of Christ), and Wesley Theological Seminary (United Methodist).
According to the president of Wesley seminary, Wesley paid a fee for a table with promotional material at WOW 2003. But Wesley did not endorse or give financial support to WOW beyond this fee.
Kolodny, an author and former national coordinator for The National Bisexual Network, was leading a workshop called “Blessed Bi Spirit: Bisexual People of Faith.” Although focusing mostly on bisexuality, Kolodny, who is Jewish, explained that she could not conclude the session without discussing polyamory.
“There can be fidelity in threesomes,” Kolodny said. “It can be just as sanctified as anything else if all parties are agreed.” But she was careful to stress that polyamory is unacceptable “if there is deceit.”
Kolodny said polyamory does not usually involve simultaneous group sex. But there are exceptions, she admitted, as she recalled a friend of hers who shares a bed with his wife and male partner. When asked by a workshop participant how polyamory was different from “recreational sex,” Kolodny responded that consensual recreational sex could be a part of polyamory. But polyamory usually involves some level of commitment and intimacy.
Noting she herself had never been polyamorous, Kolodny explained that as a busy attorney she simply did not have time to conduct the complicated “negotiations” necessary for “holy” polyamory. But she expressed admiration for persons with the time to organize.
Most of Kolodny’s talk was about bisexuality, not polyamory. “I disagree with the queer movement [when it claims] that sexual orientation is predetermined,” Kolodny said, asserting that the existence of bisexuality “challenges all that.”
“I know a lot of women who chose to become lesbian,” Kolodny said. “Love between two people is always beautiful,” she added, and should be regarded as part of free choice.
“I’m not sure we can make the case for genetic predetermination,” Kolodny stressed, saying sexual preference depends on opportunity, support, and spiritual experiences.
Kolodny lamented that the “queer” movement insists on the “party line” of genetic predetermination as part of a “political strategy.”
“The queer movement relies on, ‘We can’t help it. We’re born this way,’ Kolodny said. “It feels so safe. If you don’t say it you’re thrown to the lions and you’re evil.”
She contrasted the insistence on genetic predetermination with the teachings of Judaism and Christianity, which say: “God gives us choices.”
“Free will is essential to our humanity and essential to our being created in the image of God,” Kolodny said. She charged that denying free choice in sex preference was “perpetuating the hetero-patriarchy,” helping the “radical right,” ignoring bisexuality, and making it easier for “hate” to continue.
Rather than creating “absolute poles” of sexual preference, Kolodny said the world includes a wide spectrum of choices. She recalled the hostility of her “dyke” friends when she abandoned her strict lesbianism for bisexuality. Many homosexuals suspect bisexuals of trying to gain the “privileges” of the hetero-patriarchy by seeking sexual partners of the opposite gender.
Another workshop leader who addressed a sexual minority sometimes forgotten by the “queer” movement was the Rev. Erin Swenson, formerly Eric. Swenson is a Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) minister and family counselor whose sex change operation made Swenson the first post-operative transsexual minister in a major denomination.
Swenson was married with children. But after suffering for years from a desire to be a woman, Swenson finally divorced and had the operation. “I don’t recommend that any one become transgender,” Swenson said. “It’s a very painful process.”
“Some people accuse me of not being a woman,” Swenson complained, citing “ultra-feminists.” Swenson prefers being called simply “Erin and a child of God” to any label. “High heels are very uncomfortable,” Swenson playfully admitted.
“Transgender people won’t come to your church unless they truly know they are safe there,” Swenson warned. Even ostensibly “gay” friendly congregations are sometimes not prepared for transgender people. “Get your church to be trans friendly,” Swenson urged. One need is for bathrooms not marked male or female.
Swenson described the United Church of Christ as “miles ahead of anybody” in making itself open to transgender people. The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), in contrast, declined Swenson’s offer to volunteer in the creation of church resource materials for transgender church members.
“Transgendered people threaten communities because they threaten our assumptions,” Swenson concluded. “It is threatening but also freeing.”
Leading a workshop on “Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Questioning Issues in the Roman Catholic Church,” Mary Louise Cervone complained that tolerance rather than justice” is the norm in America today. A former president of Dignity USA, Cervone, with her same-sex partner at her side, wondered how many “nameless men and women” must die before this country moves beyond tolerance to freedom for all people.
“Our best hope for change rests not with bishops and the pope but with Catholic people,” Cervone insisted. “Change won’t come form the top down. The Catholic people must demand freedom.
Cervone affirmed her lesbianism as a “gift of God.” She confessed she has a hard time attending the Catholic Church, because the “church is not where we find freedom. It’s where we go to hide.”
“But you can’t kick me out,” Cervone declared defiantly. “Where in religion did we get the idea that some people are more worthy than others?” she wondered.
The Rev. Jorge Lockwood, who is Global Praise Coordinator for the United Methodist Church’s Board of Global Ministries, led a workshop called “Redeeming Our Bodies, Congregational Song as a Path of Liberation.”
“As queer people, we have another way of looking at the body,” Lockwood said. He complained that churches too often are uncomfortable with the human body and suffer from “liturgical constipation.” He observed that too often people think the “desire of a 25 year old gay man for another 25 year old man is a beautiful thing,” but the desire of a 65 year old for a 25 year is “dirty.”
“We have all learned to challenge Romans,” said the Rev. Mari Castellanos, referring to St. Paul’s letter that, among other Scriptures, is critical of homosexual behavior. Castellanos leads the Justice and Witness Ministries of the United Church of Christ. “We must do likewise with all texts that go against our brothers and sisters that are being claimed as the unerring Word of God.”
But Castellanos also urged the WOW 2003 audience to embrace “justice” issues beyond their own. “When we leave this earth, queer bishops won’t matter as much as whether the hungry are fed,” she insisted, to applause.
“This president and this Congress have systematically torn down the social net that sustained all of us,” Castellanos mourned. “We must lobby our government on behalf of the poor of the world. Our experience of exile has taught us compassion.”
Castellanos promised that “we will take on scary proposals such as the Marriage Protection Act. We will turn the tide that threatens to obliterate the social contract.” Echoing the name of a radical homosexual group, she insisted: “We must continue to act-up!”
Rev. Yvette Flunder, a United Church of Christ pastor from San Francisco, celebrated a string of political victories for pro-homosexuality advocates, including the election of an Episcopal Church homosexual bishop, the arrival of legalized same-sex unions in Canada, and the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling against anti-sodomy laws.
“The Holy Ghost can break loose in an atmosphere of injustice and give us more justice in three weeks than many years!” Flunder enthused. “These wouldn’t have been miracles under Bill Clinton!” she exclaimed, citing the irony of pro-homosexuality strides under a conservative government.
The Rev. Troy Perry, founder of the predominantly homosexual Metropolitan Community Churches, asked all the heterosexuals at WOW 2003 to stand and receive applause. “Thank you!!... I know what people do to you,” he told them, saying they pay a price for solidarity with homosexuals.
Perry said he “just got married” to his male partner of 18 years, who has had AIDS for several years. He likened the plight of homosexuals who cannot legally marry to slaves who also had no legal right to marriage.
“I will not give up until every one of us can marry,” Perry insisted, comparing Heaven to attending the WOW 2003 conference.
A brief skit produced for the WOW 2003 audience showed three troubled disciples in a storm-tossed boat. One, a young woman, declares: “I am bisexual and can’t find acceptance in the gay community.” A man says, “I am a 19 year old gay. Or am I queer? And I’m Presbyterian. But I’m not sure what that means!” A third person complains she is age 22 but cannot “find a voice” in the gay community.
Then a figure representing Jesus appears, played by a young woman wrapped in the rainbow flag, which is the emblem of the homosexual movement. “Take heart, it is I,” she says. “Do not be afraid.”
If you would actually do a little research, you would find that "Thou Shalt Not Murder" is EXACTLY what God said to Moses, and wrote on the tablet of stone.
One scripture does not a doctrine make. Obviously, the flesh WAS the sacrifice. Are you that blind that you cannot see? What part of "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree" is unclear to you?
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. (Heb 9:22)
Do you want to explain to all of us here how a Spirit can shed blood?
Denial of the literal Physical Atonement. A denial of orthodox Christian belief of centuries, clearly and forcefully shown in scripture. This is the legacy of Witness Lee and his cult. You are dangerously close to heresy, if you haven't already crossed that line.
Theological systems from which you draw in a sort of a'la carte fashion. Arminianism is Semi-Pelagian and Molinistic at its very core. It was soundly condemned at the Synod of Dordt. You persist in espousing a doctrine of Arminain free will, Universal atonement, conditional election, and some esoteric ideas about "soulishness" (taken straight from Witness Lee/Watchman Nee), and other eclectic ideas that are not sound theology, not orthodox, and then get all huffy and snooty when anyone dares to challenge you on them. The tenor of many of your posts betrays a smug belief in your own superiority of knowledge vis-a-vis anyone else, and your tossing about terms that you don't define, knowing that most will not admit they don't know what you mean, serves to insulate you from all but the most pointed of attacks on your supposedly "superior" position. I have caught you in several out-and-out heretical statements, and your response was to publicly call my own salvation into question. If you think I'm going to let this go, you're wrong. I will withstand heresy wherever I see it.
Actually, in a tangental sort of way, this debate underlies everything else. In some ways, what we're seeing with this gay agenda in the churches is the end result of Arminian doctrine. It didn't start out that way, but this is where it eventually leads.
Here's a couple that stand pretty well on their own. Take your pick.
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
If the banker bears our debt in his wallet, is the lienholder anxious to receive the cash from within the wallet or is it the wallet without the cash itself that the lienholder forgives the debt? There are passages regarding the indwelling, the spirit, and things eternal which are more pertinent. There is also significance in the blood in sealing the New Covenant but more closely associated with the Eucharist.
Must be something sound Scripturally behind volition, otherwise those fallen away wouldn't attempt to misuse the language so obviously. It would be far easier for Satan to attack man and homosexuals on the basis of free will through legalistic channels if it weren't so Scripturally profound.
Doesn't apply. Not a good analogy at all. Next...
There are passages regarding the indwelling, the spirit, and things eternal which are more pertinent. There is also significance in the blood in sealing the New Covenant but more closely associated with the Eucharist.
And what does the Lord's supper signify? The shedding of His blood and the brokenness of His body, for us. From the beginning, sin has been covered with shed blood. Two animals had to die for God to provide skins to cloth Adam and Eve. Blood was shed. All through the OT, blood was shed in sacrifice for sin, culminating in the antetype of those sacrifices, the crucifixion of Jesus. In reality, the OT sacrifices were the shadow, the symbolic sacrifices, of which the crucifixion of Christ was the REAL sacrifice. The OT sacrifices could only cover sin. Christ's physical death and shed Blood actually wiped out, destroyed, and did away with the sins of those whom He died for. It wasn't His Spirit that died, it was His flesh and blood body, which was resurrected 3 days later as a glorified flesh and bone body, incorruptible and perfect, but retaining the wounds of His crucifixion, as a testimony for all time and eternity of the sacrifice He made.
You are trying to make this "mystical" and "spiritual" as though that somehow were more "scriptural". It's not. It was Jesus Christ's physical death and shedding of His Blood that paid for the sins of His Elect people. Paid in full, I might add. Anything other than that is heresy, against scripture, and will result in damnation.
Doctrines of demons will do that...
Interesting, but what's yer point? am I supposed to be impressed with your little "play on words"?
Do you believe that it was the shed Blood of Jesus that satisfied the penalty for our sins? Yes or no?
That makes two of us.
What do you do with those that God has sovereignly place in a place or a time where he will never hear the gospel? How does he choose? He has common grace but no gospel
The man who has faith in Christ is blessed and has the ability by Divine decree to choose without undue influence.
Sp faith does not lead to belief but to free will? Is prayer an undue influence?
This also sets an example for the angelic domain to observe the justice in His immutable decisions upon the fallen angelic state in the past.
For what ?
Why would you think it important for the angels to see the justice of God and not the reprobate? How is it an "immutable decision "of Gods if it is mans will?
It's really very simple...you just type the words, and click "post". Of course, I would prefer that you mean them, because a sincere apology would be pleasing to God, whereas an insincere apology would not find favor with Him. But then again, you would know all about that....
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