XM-8: New U.S. Service Rifle?

Modern Firearms and Ammunition website ^ | unknown | Unknown

[xsrdx]

Obviously this rifle challenge is very, very hard. I have tried it twice myself and conclude that while the task is not impossible, it is nearly so.

While the "Colonel" (actually retired LTC, but I digress) is clearly an expert rifleman, his eyesight is probably not what it may have been.

I'd like to see a super he-man like David Tubb or Jerry Miculek try it with an appropriate blaster.

1MOA, 1 Second per shot, at 1000yds, sustained for 20rds.

Yikes.

[xsrdx]

Sorry for the digression

No apology required, just making sure you'd seen the content on the other thread.

[Nakota]

Interesting you mention the .260 Remington as a possible round. This cartridge virtually duplicates the ballistics of the 6.5x55mm Swedish cartridge that was first introduced about 110 years ago. It is still a great cartridge, mild recoil and great long range accuracy with a 140 grain bullet that is big enough to do the job.

[PoorMuttly]

"The Lones Wigger Cup" !


Guys...I have to applaud you from my heart for unhesitatingly encouraging and inviting our brothers and sisters all around the world to do what we have done here, and have made for human freedom and dignity in our country. They CAN do it...and they SHOULD do it...and we WILL stand WITH them when they TRY!

Join the Freedom Club...we LOVE it...and YOU and your CHILDREN and your CHILDREN'S CHILDREN....will TOO !!!

If you disagree with what we do here...how we behave and think (probably by judging what some of us see as media "entertainment," which is NOT the reality of this place)...just remember that we have the Free Choice to do it...or ANYTHING ELSE we choose to do. We hope and pray that some day soon you guys will have the joy and benefit of real Freedom too. We believe...and recent events have clearly demonstrated to us that countries who are not free pose a mortal threat to humanity, by being manipulated -- left no other outlet for identity and self-respect -- by their wealthy rulers, to their own people's hurt as well. In fact..their own residents are the FIRST to suffer...then are manipulated into "believing" that their oppressive sufferings are caused my some group OUTSIDE of their own country and culture. This is a cruel and degrading technique of the Tyrant...who loves himself much more than he loves his people.

[PoorMuttly]

"The Lones Wigger Cup" !


Guys...I have to applaud you from my heart for unhesitatingly encouraging and inviting our brothers and sisters all around the world to do what we have done here, and have made for human freedom and dignity in our country. They CAN do it...and they SHOULD do it...and we WILL stand WITH them when they TRY!

Join the Freedom Club...we LOVE it...and YOU and your CHILDREN and your CHILDREN'S CHILDREN....will TOO !!!

If you disagree with what we do here...how we behave and think (probably by judging what some of us see as media "entertainment," which is NOT the reality of this place)...just remember that we have the Free Choice to do it...or ANYTHING ELSE we choose to do. We hope and pray that some day soon you guys will have the joy and benefit of real Freedom too. We believe...and recent events have clearly demonstrated to us that countries who are not free pose a mortal threat to humanity, by being manipulated -- left no other outlet for identity and self-respect -- by their wealthy rulers, to their own people's hurt as well. In fact..their own residents are the FIRST to suffer...then are manipulated into "believing" that their oppressive sufferings are caused my some group OUTSIDE of their own country and culture. This is a cruel and degrading technique of the Tyrant...who loves himself much more than he loves his people.

[PoorMuttly]

"The Lones Wigger Cup" !


Guys...I have to applaud you from my heart for unhesitatingly encouraging and inviting our brothers and sisters all around the world to do what we have done here, and have made for human freedom and dignity in our country. They CAN do it...and they SHOULD do it...and we WILL stand WITH them when they TRY!

Join the Freedom Club...we LOVE it...and YOU and your CHILDREN and your CHILDREN'S CHILDREN....will TOO !!!

If you disagree with what we do here...how we behave and think (probably by judging what some of us see as media "entertainment," which is NOT the reality of this place)...just remember that we have the Free Choice to do it...or ANYTHING ELSE we choose to do. We hope and pray that some day soon you guys will have the joy and benefit of real Freedom too. We believe...and recent events have clearly demonstrated to us that countries who are not free pose a mortal threat to humanity, by being manipulated -- left no other outlet for identity and self-respect -- by their wealthy rulers, to their own people's hurt as well. In fact..their own residents are the FIRST to suffer...then are manipulated into "believing" that their oppressive sufferings are caused my some group OUTSIDE of their own country and culture. This is a cruel and degrading technique of the Tyrant...who loves himself much more than he loves his people.

[PoorMuttly]

..well...I certainly didn't think it bore THAT much repeating...!!!!!

Perhaps the Official Muttly Supercomputer IBM-Brain is growing a mind of its own.

It wouldn't Post, I kept checking..."Web Site Not Responding"...

Oh well....may it be noticed overseas well.

Sorry guys.

[B4Ranch]

We're getting there......fast. Now we need someone to authorize the napalm round. Barret does make some 'cool' equipment.

What changes could have been done to the brake to make it too effective? It just looks larger than the standard model.

[B4Ranch]

Who are we?

I can say without a doubt that I am positively the least experienced person who contributes to this thread.

Why do I read the shooting threads?

I hope the knowledge gained from them will never be needed on American soil, but you never know. Men such as yourself, archy, Sam Cree, Travis McGee, Squantos, Eaker, PoorMuttly, Long Cut, Shooter 2.5, 45Auto, river rat, the list goes on and on, are literally encyclopedias of information that I am proud to say help educate the ignorant, such as myself.

[river rat]

"With great optics, a free floating bull barrel, a great trigger, well supported on sandbags, a fantastic shooter....I think it can be done.

And....
Perfect weather conditions - during the barrel warm up and Zero in prior to the challenge.

And...
NO change in light, wind, mirage, barometric pressure or humidity for the entire period..

And... Projectiles and powder that do not foul the barrel or change the geometry or drag within the barrel.

And...
Rounds that have been loaded equal to the task...to compensate for the increasing temperature of the barrel and loaded in correct order in the magazine...

And..
An observer to track the impact points and advise the shooter to change his sight picture, if required.

And...
A shooter that does not breath for the entire 20 seconds.
No time to exhale, hold, squeeze in this challenge.

And....
I'm sure I left out several other critical conditions that need to be controlled...

Plus...
A lot of luck....

But I agree....some day, with some gear -it will be done..
No doubt about it..

However ----- I would be SHOCKED to hear that the Corps is using optics on the range... Even at 1000 yards..
Snipers are the only kids that should be using optics..
Semper Fi

[river rat]

"I'd like to think some band of Iranian students is poring over this material from an Internet cafe outside of Tehran with excitement building one post at a time...

If they are ever to regain their freedom, they are going to have to take it from those that are in power..

Those that currently hold power in Iran, will not be removed by elections...

A rock will secure a knife...
A knife will secure a pistol..
A pistol will secure a rifle..
A rifle etc........
Those that hold weapons in ANY society...should be thought of as only holding them until YOU need them...and take them for yourself..

Knowing and having worked with many dozens of Iranians here in California and elsewhere --- I remain confident that one day - the Iranian military will stand with the rebellion and against the lunatic fanatics..
The Iranian people are unique in their area....and it is not just because they are not Arabs.... They are freedom lovers...not kool-aid drinkers.

Semper Fi

[B4Ranch]

"Rounds that have been loaded equal to the task...to compensate for the increasing temperature of the barrel and loaded in correct order in the magazine..."

This is something I've never seen discussed. Care to explain further?

[river rat]

"This is something I've never seen discussed. Care to explain further?"

Neither have I !!!!
But any shooter attempting to accomplish the task, would want to eliminate as many variables that come into play as possible..

The rounds would have to be very precisely loaded, with carefully selected components.
The rounds may even have to be loaded differently to compensate for the barrel's diameter expanding from heat - and altering the projectile/barrel interface.
It this became necessary - then the rounds would have to be loaded in the magazine in correct order --- from warm barrel to hot barrel order..

20 large caliber, high velocity rounds, fired in 20 seconds will REALLY heat up a barrel..
Heat will expand the I.D. of the barrel, and this will effect the "launch" path of the projectile.

I'm a fair to meddling hand loader - but I'll bet there are folks in this forum that could come up with a lot more considerations that would have to be taken into account to achieve the task....

The science, art and discipline of VERY precise shooting - is mind boggling when you hear the care, steps and EXPENSE that some old farts go through...

Semper Fi

[risk]

Men such as yourself...

LOL - I'm just an ordinary American who enjoys shooting. I'd like to think that I would be a good patriot if the times demanded it. But I've paid respects at the graves of a few giants, though. And I've been lucky enough to talk to a few more. That's all. On a thread like this, ideas are just as powerful as skills. The ideas are crackling with freedom. Like you, I'm just happy to read and learn. I still haven't made it through the whole thread, it's too long now!

[B4Ranch]

Thank you for the explanation.

"The science, art and discipline of VERY precise shooting - is mind boggling when you hear the care, steps and EXPENSE that some old farts go through..."

These are the men who come out with the fantastic ideas that get expanded on by the small manufacturers world-wide.

[Long Cut]

Some more info posted HERE. I invited 'em all over here. I'll post the article on this thread in a few...

[Long Cut]

With thanks to John Jorsett and Strategypage.com...

Posted on 02/17/2004 3:07:41 PM EST by John Jorsett

The U.S. Army is happy with the initial field testing of it's new M-8 (or XM-8) Assault Rifle. One of the major design features of the M-8 that makes it superior to the M-16 is the way it handles propellant gasses. The M-16 has these gasses going into the receiver, depositing layers of crud from propellant that did not completely burn. The M-8 keeps the propellant gasses out of the receiver and this reduces the cleaning time by about 70 percent. The troops appreciate this. More importantly, the reduced amount of crud in the receiver greatly increases reliability (far fewer rounds getting stuck.) In fact, the M-8 is designed to fire 15,000 rounds without cleaning or lubrication, even in a dirty (like a desert) environment. Troops are not allowed to let their weapons go like that, but this degree of reliability makes it less likely that rifles won't jam in a sandstorm or after getting dropped in the mud. The M-8 barrel and receiver is also of more sturdy construction, making it less likely that the user will get injured if there's something in the barrel when a round is fired. This is not unusual in combat. All you have to do is accidentally jam the barrel into the dirt while hitting the ground or otherwise avoiding enemy fire, and then have to return fire. On an M-16, this can often cause the rifle to, well, blow up in your face. This unfortunate event is much less likely with the M-8.

The M-8 comes with a battery powered sight that includes a red-dot, close-combat capability, plus infrared laser aimer and laser illuminator with a backup etched reticule. The sights on the M-8, similar to those which have been showing up on M-16s over the past decade, make it much easier to hit something. The M-8 is better designed for "ease of use" and support troops who don't handle their weapons frequently will find that they can more easily hit something with an M-8. Tests, using people who have not handled a rifle frequently, have demonstrated this.

Because the attachment points for rail mounted devices are built into the M-8, the sight can be factory zeroed. The M-16, because it has rail mounting hardware mounted on it, requires frequent re-zeroing in the field. This is a feature very much appreciated by the troops. The attachment points allow additional sighting devices to be quickly added to the weapon. A new 40mm, single shot grenade launcher (the M320) will be available for the M-8 and can be quickly installed by troops, without special tools. The M-8 is designed for easy left or right handed operation.

Testing will increase, as more M-8s are available, and the plan is that by early 2007, the first of over a million M-8s will begin distribution to all troops in active and reserve army units. One thing that may slow this down is the army research on the use of a new caliber (6.8mm). The new bullet has shown to have better accuracy and stopping power. While troops would be carrying less ammo with the larger round (25 rounds in the current 30 round magazine), they would require fewer shots to take down enemy troops. American troops today are much better trained in the use of their rifles than they were four decades ago. Automatic fire is not often used, with accurate, individual shots being the norm. The M-8 rifle, and possibly a new caliber, are a reflection of that.

Thanks, John!

[John Jorsett]

Thanks, John!

My pleasure. If I'd known this thread was running, I'd have noted the article here as well.

[meatloaf]

If I remember correctly, once the "proven G3 roller-delayed system" cycles the brass, it isn't reloadable. I'd stick with the weapons you mentioned, especially the .30-06 or .308.

[Cuttnhorse]

Good info Pharm...I love these threads.