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Musicians sue South Beach (Nightclub sued for playing music)
Amarillo Globe-News ^ | 3.12.03 | Jim McBride

Posted on 03/12/2003 10:48:04 AM PST by mhking

Musicians sue South Beach

By JIM McBRIDE
jmcbride@amarillonet.com

Attorneys representing singer-songwriters Madonna and Lenny Kravitz are suing the owner of an Amarillo nightclub, alleging the club infringed on their federal copyrights by playing their songs without authorization.

The copyright infringement suit was filed in federal court March 4 against Scott Williams Elkins and Pickerington Bicycle Club, which operates South Beach, 2600 Linda Circle. The suit says the club is owned by Elkins.

The Globe-News was unable to reach South Beach representatives for comment on the suit Tuesday.

According to the suit, the various plaintiffs secured exclusive rights and privileges to copyrights for various songs.

The suit claims the club infringed on the plaintiffs' copyrights by giving public performances of copyrighted songs on the club premises.

The suit claims the defendants have not sought or obtained a license agreement from the plaintiffs or the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers, known as ASCAP, a performing rights licensing organization that the plaintiffs belong to.

Plaintiffs claim ASCAP representatives contacted the defendants and sent numerous letters informing them of their liability under federal copyright law and that the defendants have continued to perform copyrighted music without permission during business hours.

Songs named in the lawsuit include "Justify My Love," written by Madonna Ciccone and Lenny Kravitz; "Erotica," written by Madonna and Shep Pettibone; "Nasty," written by James Harris III and Terry Lewis; and "Get the Party Started," written by Linda Perry.

Plaintiffs are seeking between $750 and $30,000 in damages for each of the five counts of copyright infringement named in the suit.

The suit also asks that the club be barred and permanently restrained from publicly performing the songs named in the suit.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: mdm
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To: Anchoragite
The more performances, the more important it must be, and thus, more reward to the people who made it happen.... theoretically.

Not true. I buy a CD, and I don't have to pay (yet) the artist an additional fee every time I listen to it, or, for that matter, how many people I have in the car with me. OK... Maybe I'll grant that the only reason I don't have to pay more is because they haven't figured out a way to enforce that (yet)...

In the final analysis, I'm also suspicious that this is all a huge red herring. All of the people that I know that download lots of music as MP3's ALSO have enormous CD collections and have bought copies of just about everything they download. They're into music. They buy music. They download music. Big hairy deal.

I have had many titles on vinyl. I've gone out and bought much of it on CD's to supplant the old vinyl records. But: If I already own the recording, couldn't I download it from the Internet for listening in another format? Do I have to pay for it again as an MP3?

101 posted on 03/12/2003 9:55:41 PM PST by Ramius
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To: HairOfTheDog
hehehe... I know. I like that one too. I don't happen to remember if I paid to listen to it or not.
102 posted on 03/12/2003 9:58:10 PM PST by Ramius
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To: tdadams
Not trying to angtogonize you but...what about the articles and pictures we post to FR? Fair use for these what about the music?
103 posted on 03/12/2003 10:00:00 PM PST by kmiller1k
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To: Ramius
I have never paid a penny.

Music piracy is a hairy problem. I do believe the artists deserve to be paid for permanent copies of their work. If the internet availability were to listen, much like the radio, but not take it with you and put it on disk, it would not be as much of an afront.

The barn door that is open is the internet and music "sharing". The artists are being robbed by that. but the horses are long gone. I don't see how it is possible to get them back now. Anyone can put up a site.
104 posted on 03/12/2003 10:03:29 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: fifteendogs
You realise, of course, the "kill all the lawyers" line was actually a defence of lawyers, don't you?

The line was uttered by a conspirator in Henry VI Pt II (Dick the Butcher) who wanted to overthrow the legal government, and bring chaos.

His aside (to kill all the lawyers) would have had the effect of clouding the legal situation, and would have allowed his leader, Jack Cade to move to phase two.

That involved killing all scholars, courtiers, and gentlemen, before phase three: to destroy all the records of the realm.

The intent was to remove anyone or anything that would stop Cade from siezing complete power and control.

Now ... substitute Hillary Clinton for Jack Cade. Is this what you are after?

Sadimgnik

105 posted on 03/12/2003 10:05:06 PM PST by sadimgnik
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To: kmiller1k
antagonize
106 posted on 03/12/2003 10:05:56 PM PST by kmiller1k
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To: Ramius
Let me clarify the "I have never paid a penny" statement in the context of my post. I have never paid a penny for the Dixie Chicks. Heh. I just liked the song when I have heard it.

I have actually downloaded very few songs, and I have never burned one to CD. Just haven't been that interested in it. I have committed other downloading sins, but they are my own.
107 posted on 03/12/2003 10:08:00 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: Anchoragite
Did painters ever have the leverage to charge for their art by how many people saw the painting?

Maybe it's the business model that's the problem.

I'm not saying it would be wrong for them to be able to do it. What I'm saying is that they were never lucky enough to come up with a way to make a dime off it. The business model wasn't there. I'm pretty sure that Rembrandt likely got paid for a painting, and the "performance" of the display of the painting went on for many years and millions of people, without anything going back to him. Is that wrong, or just way it is?

Musicians have been lucky enough to have control over the medium of distribution for a long time now, but that time is over. It's not about right or wrong. It's about the reality of the situation. The business model that has been in place is simply no longer workable. I don't know what will replace it, but whoever comes up with it will be very, very, very wealthy. :-)

108 posted on 03/12/2003 10:11:35 PM PST by Ramius
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To: sadimgnik
Buzzkill. :-)
109 posted on 03/12/2003 10:13:10 PM PST by Ramius
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To: HairOfTheDog
I do believe the artists deserve to be paid for permanent copies of their work.

Yup. Completely agree. The problem now is defining the words "performance", "permanent", "copy" and who knows how many other terms...

If I have every song ever written available to listen to all of the time wherever I am, so that I never have to bother making my own copy... then this stuff gets just plain wacky.

NOTE: This is merely the dimension of the problem TODAY with today's technology. Just wait a few years. These issues will not get easier to define and understand. They'll get harder, more intricate and complex, and even more impossible to enforce.

110 posted on 03/12/2003 10:18:47 PM PST by Ramius
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To: Ramius
Buzzkill?

[quizzical look]

The remembrance of doing something stupid that brings you down off your good time?

The punk band?

The defunct MTV show?

I'm sorry .. I missed the reference.

Sadim

[/quizzical look]

111 posted on 03/12/2003 10:21:28 PM PST by sadimgnik
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To: Ramius
Not true. I buy a CD, and I don't have to pay (yet) the artist an additional fee every time I listen to it,

That's because you've purchased a private license that allows you unlimited private use. It allows you other rights under copyright law, such as the right to transfer that intellectual property to other media (tape, mp3, etc.), as long as its only used in accordance with private use copyright. It's called "Fair Use."

ASCAP is enforcing payment for public performances, which are not covered by the license you've purchased for personal use. The artists are saying, "If you just want to listen to music in your home, it will cost you this much. If you want to use our music to enhance your business, it will cost you a different amount, depending on what part music plays in your business."

112 posted on 03/12/2003 10:45:08 PM PST by Anchoragite
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To: Ramius
The business model that has been in place is simply no longer workable.

I'm sorry, but what part is unworkable? Despite all the theives -- sorry, "entitled businessmen" -- ASCAP is effective, as the article shows. Recording labels are still making money. Exactly what isn't working? There may be millions of copyright violations every day, but without ASCAP et. al., nobody would be getting paid at all. Seems the balance between theft and policing is working just fine.

113 posted on 03/12/2003 10:51:22 PM PST by Anchoragite
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To: Anchoragite
ASCAP is effective, as the article shows. Recording labels are still making money.

I thought ASCAP was in it for the artists, not the labels?

114 posted on 03/12/2003 11:41:55 PM PST by Ramius
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To: Anchoragite
If you just want to listen to music in your home, it will cost you this much. If you want to use our music to enhance your business, it will cost you a different amount, depending on what part music plays in your business.

If I play a CD in my home, but it is really a business meeting for my clients and I am using the music to enhance my business, do I owe ASCAP any money?

115 posted on 03/12/2003 11:55:58 PM PST by Ramius
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To: Anchoragite
you've purchased a private license that allows you unlimited private use.

I don't recall signing that, but I'll take your word for it. You'll probably say something silly like merely buying the CD is agreement to the license. It sort of like sending a check to the city of San Francisco for a dollar, with a inscription "payment in full for the golden gate bridge", then claiming that since they cashed the check it was a sales contract.

Let me cut to the chase here:

The record industry is in a panic now, because they have discovered that they've been selling the wrong thing the whole time. They thought they were selling music, when in fact they were only selling records, and then later CD's. They were selling little pieces of plastic, because nobody's been able to figure out how to make money off of music itself. They only think they're in the music business. No, they're in the little round bits of plastic business, and now nobody really needs the little round bits of plastic anymore.

They're fully correct in being in a panic, but there's a reason that the "R" in RIAA stands for "Recording". It's not the "MIAA", and maybe it should have been.

116 posted on 03/13/2003 12:09:04 AM PST by Ramius
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To: FreeTally
Does that apply also if a restaurant has the local radio station playing?
117 posted on 03/13/2003 4:04:01 AM PST by BSunday (Saddam your eyes!)
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To: tdadams
Maybe you don't know yourself. Your posts smack of this "big-music is bad, they exploit artists, music should be free" gobbledygook I hear so often today that sounds like it's straight out of the Che Guevara school of anti-capitalism.

You should listen to yourself. With a straight face you defend outfits like ASCAP and SESAC. OK EVERYONE, USE THE GOOGLE! Google up ASCAP and SESAC, and see what people have to say about them: racketeering, extortion, price fixing, corruption, etc. Your defense of them is as credible as a New Jersey wiseguy defending a Newark trash hauler.

Your responses show you know these companies and their licesing terms intimately. Then you would also know that if the blanket fee structure were overturned and a pro-rated, per song structure put in place, their extortion racket would collapse.

118 posted on 03/13/2003 6:14:03 AM PST by eno_
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To: tdadams
If I have unfairly characterized your views or your character, I apologize. I was a little cranky yesterday. I know we agree on much.
119 posted on 03/13/2003 6:17:21 AM PST by FreeTally
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To: kmiller1k
Shhhhhh! Stop asking such embarrassing questions. People might realize they have a commonsense right to use recordings in sensible ways.

Don't you realize that logic and common sense are trumped by laws, no matter how corrupted their origin and how twisted their implementation?

Go do something harmless. The fine people at ASCAP want to be left alone. And NEVER EVER publicise any local freeelancer for ASCAP. Some people might get the impression they are some kind of stool pidgeon and not take music lessons from them any more, or in other ways do economic harm to them.
120 posted on 03/13/2003 6:19:23 AM PST by eno_
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