[Truthsearcher]

Okay, this might cause some heated responses by I am most definitely not trolling, but looking for an honest debate on this topic.

I am surprised by the amount of sympathy on Freerepublic for the South in discussions about the Civil War.

Now I understand the States rights argument, and I understand conservatives tend to stand in favor of strong States rights. But to me when it comes to the Civil War the states right position is as untenous as the woman's right to choose position on abortion.

There can be no legitimate right for a state to enforce slavery on her people any more than there can be a legitimate right for a woman to kill her unborn child. To me in both cases intervention is necessary to protect the life and liberty of those so oppressed, even if force is necessary.

We conservatives often assert that the "pro-choice" movement is in reality "pro-abortion", and rightly so. So I don't see any way to get around the same logic that would consider being "pro-choice" in the matter of states deciding for themselves on the issue of slavery is the same thing as being pro-slavery.

[go star go]

The Civil war didn't have anything to do with states rights no matter what people say. The Civil war was about the utter immorality and evilness of believing one human being can own another human being. Only idiots argue otherwise.

[Bob J]

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[vaudine]

It seems to me you are trying to judge the South by standards in use today. It is difficult for today's citizen to understand the interest and involvement, the thought, discussion, etc. of those who governed in the 1800's. Voting was not universal; the union was only 80 plus years old; the states, including most of the Northern ones acceded to the right of secession.

Jefferson Davis, a Mississippi Senator when the South seceded, made his last speech in the Senate on States Rights. He received a standing ovation (by the way, he had many friends from No.and West and was considered a moderate) Ironically, Davis had been Secrertary of War only 7 years before the Civil War and had upgraded the union army, getting them repeating rifles and better pay among other things.

About slavery--when discussed in the US, one hearing the discussiion would think it was invented by the South, for the South, and practiced only by the South. This is not a promotion of the rightness or wrongness of slavery, but just some facts I believe surrounded the practice and discussion of slavery at that time.

Slavery has existed as long as the history of man, and was an equal opportunity phenomenon. The Romans enslaved the Greeks (both white races;Biblical tribes enslaved one another; Arabs and stronger black tribes captured and sold weaker tribesmen in Africa, having regular slaveholding ports where they were sold as a commodity; women of all nations were captured and sold worldwide. Slavery HAS NEVER CEASED to exist,i.e.Muslim Sudan enslaving Christians today and children being stolen, bought and trafficked in most of the world right now. I am constantly ticked off when people here today just want to rehash the horrors of US slavery instead of doing something about what is going on today.

But I digress. Slaves were imported by Yankee slavers, sold both North and South, but slavery proliferated in the South because of the enormous amount of land to be cleared and tilled. A lot of myths grew about slavery, I believe in order to justify holding slaves. Some myths--Negroes were an inferior race: they needed to be cared for-housed, clothed, fed; they were childlike and happy, etc.and could not make it as freemen.

The reality outside these comforting myths was that plantation owners were caught in an economic bind. The land and the slaves were used as collateral in bad years to make loans to keep the plantations afloat. Case in point-Thomas Jefferson, much castigated today for not freeing his slaves when his writings show he thought they should be freed. His holdings were so mortgaged that his family and holdings would have been sunk, and the truth is that his slaves would have been claimed by the bank(s) and resold.

There were people in the South who abhorred slavery, and some who did free their slaves. The various states felt that they had the right to govern themselves, and since most of the legislators(if not all) from the South were
slaveholders, they did not subscribe to the Union telling them how to self-govern, and when to declare bankruptcy. (Not ALL the South seceded. Here in Alabama, we had the Free State of Winston--Winston County, AL, just above where I live). The union was seen as a collection of self-governing states, not a strong federal governing body. When the South seceded, War might still have been avoided, but both sides felt strongly and metaphorically beat their chests. When the union reenforcements came down to Ft. Sumpter, Jefferson Davis had envoys in Washington trying to avert military action.
In spite of revisionist history, Davis was an honorable man and did his best after being drafted to be President to prevent the war. We in the South blame Mr Lincoln to a great extent. Yes, he freed the slaves--in the South only. I believe the South would have come to that action in time if not coerced, because the course of civilized countries was headed that way. Even the economic considerations were on the wane as an accepted way of life came under pressure to change.

Question: Many liberals today seem to feel that we as Americans have too much, consume too much, and don't do enough for the rest of the world (Not so, but they think so)
Would you resist if our legislators voted to go global with our taxes, and told us to give up all except what we actually need in order to do right by the starving, sick, etc. worldwide? Maybe that is how the governing Southerners felt.

Vaudine

[PhilipFreneau]

The Civil War generated the first war criminal: the Yankee General Sherman

[Contra]

The South doesn't need any sympathy, as it turns out they have won. What's that saying, "the best revenge is living well." If that's true then the South has gotten their revenge and then some.

[LibKill]

Why the hostility towards the South? Why do you hate us?

[FloridaBoy]

t5he civil war WAS NOT about slavery.... look at the unratified 13th amendment and its formulation. I have said all along if the Southern States would have known that it was not easy to get out of the union they never would have joined it in the first place.