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To: js1138; Alamo-Girl
Are you asserting that humans, and only humans, have some sort of non-tangible gizmo interacting with the brain?

Yes. It's called free will. Which seems to be predicated on a self-reflecting consciousness. Brains do not reflect on themselves -- perhaps the picture of a deterministic universe as described by classical physics might give us this idea. But classical physics doesn't have much to say about consciousness. If there is to be any "reflecting on brains," or any other system in the universe, there needs to be a "thinker" who is somehow independent of the brain itself. We -- self aware -- know that it is our consciousness that is doing the reflecting.

I do not denigrate animal consciousness in noting that it is strongly doubtful to me that animals reflect on the structure of their brains. They either dream; or undergo some strange motor contortions while they sleep. I cannot "enter into" the mind of a cat or dog, wakeful or sleeping. But I do assume that the consciousness of other humans is rather like my own.

951 posted on 02/25/2003 1:43:54 PM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop
Brains do not reflect on themselves -- perhaps the picture of a deterministic universe as described by classical physics might give us this idea. But classical physics doesn't have much to say about consciousness. If there is to be any "reflecting on brains," or any other system in the universe, there needs to be a "thinker" who is somehow independent of the brain itself.

OK, so let's simplify the question a bit. If you hit a dog on the head, does it feel pain, or is it just a reflex? Is there any moral or ethical difference between throwing a rubber ball against a wall, or a cat?

952 posted on 02/25/2003 1:48:06 PM PST by js1138
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To: betty boop
I cannot "enter into" the mind of a cat or dog, wakeful or sleeping. But I do assume that the consciousness of other humans is rather like my own.

What causes you to make that assumption about humans?

953 posted on 02/25/2003 1:49:10 PM PST by js1138
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To: betty boop
Thank you so much for your post! As always, I agree with your position.

But I do assume that the consciousness of other humans is rather like my own.

I assert that we can and do make this observation as a direct result of language. The language allows us to communicate, verbalize abstractions, evidence comprehension, coordinate, plan, organize, predict, love, etc.

Such language has not been observed in lower beings.

958 posted on 02/25/2003 2:14:52 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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