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To: Alamo-Girl
You mention that it is an “observed fact” that the future is not predictable. What is your evidence?

There is no evidence that the future can be predicted, although people try all the time, and there are plenty of mathematical models indicating it is a hopeless goal, even without quantum uncertainty. Consider the classical three-body problem in astronomy.

One of the interesting points of Abraham’s model of slope time is that our mind sees time as an instant drop off from uncertainty (future) to certainty (past) whereas the evidence is that the drop off is not sudden but sloped, i.e. more like a wave in the ocean or a steam roller down a highway – the actual process of going from future to past occurs over time.

This sounds good to me and corresponds to my subjective sense of the future. My mind certainly doesn't see any instant drop off. In fact that is the point I have been trying to make. We do anticipate the future. The extent to which any entity anticipates the future is the extent to which it has free will.

I do not agree with the bleak prospects for artificial intelligence, although I am pessimistic about it being achieved within the next thirty years. Perhaps some of the double-secret skunkworks projects alluded to on these threads hold the key, but I don't know any details and can't judge.

I think I speculated on the gargantuan thread that the universe as a whole participates in free will -- just another way of saying that there really are new things under the sun, things made possible by the rules of existence, but not required. As entities within the universe, we also participate in free will. Our thoughts and behaviors are made possible by the rules but not required. From a purely theoretical point of view, this can happen because we are engineered to anticipate the future (an impossibly complex task). I don't expect to ever see this mystery completely solved.

887 posted on 02/24/2003 9:30:13 AM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
Thank you for your post!

On the part about the predicting of the future, I was looking for a statement of degrees. We all predict the sun will come up tomorrow, some predict the weather, some predict the presence of a Higgs boson and then test for it – etc.

I am curious about how one defines the elements of uncertainty and chance. Randomness is either elusive or illusive – I’m not sure.

My mind certainly doesn't see any instant drop off. In fact that is the point I have been trying to make. We do anticipate the future.

I agree! And I do understand your use of the mechanism to define free will, it’s just that I’m looking for something more but using the same phrase to describe it. It is not a problem as long as we understand each other.

Perhaps some of the double-secret skunkworks projects alluded to on these threads hold the key, but I don't know any details and can't judge.

The secret projects on strong AI may give a fair simulation of consciousness, but I do not believe it can ever achieve free will under my definition. Yours, yes.

I think I speculated on the gargantuan thread that the universe as a whole participates in free will -- just another way of saying that there really are new things under the sun, things made possible by the rules of existence, but not required. As entities within the universe, we also participate in free will. Our thoughts and behaviors are made possible by the rules but not required. From a purely theoretical point of view, this can happen because we are engineered to anticipate the future (an impossibly complex task). I don't expect to ever see this mystery completely solved.

Thank you so much for sharing your view on this. Actually, your thinking is but a heart beat away from the view of a universal consciousness, Buddhism, etc.

889 posted on 02/24/2003 9:53:00 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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