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To: js1138; Alamo-Girl; betty boop
The debate about free will has a fundamental flaw, and that is that things are as they are regardless of which side "wins".

The physics profession will always bow to the evidence. They acknowledge and revere that things are as they are and they do the hard work of experimental verification. The profession has integrity.

Free Will is so self-evident to me that there is no argument as to actuality. Did you see me take a sip of my coffee? I willed it. End of discussion. But that Free Will is always, at the human level, constrained by the laws of physics and by our physicality. I can live with that.

Because we cannot satifactorily explain what something is or how it came to be does not detract from the fact that it is. I refer specifically to consciousness and Free Will. I respect the evidence.

I suggest that it is our immersion in Materialistic cause-and-effect cultural thinking for well over a century that explains why we don't understand. It is a mindset, a prejudice, that is a work. Our incapacity to understand state vector collapse says nothing about reality, which speaks for itself. Certain brave souls, Penrose and Walker among them, are working on it.

877 posted on 02/24/2003 7:31:36 AM PST by Phaedrus
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To: Phaedrus
Thank you so much for your post!

I suggest that it is our immersion in Materialistic cause-and-effect cultural thinking for well over a century that explains why we don't understand. It is a mindset, a prejudice, that is a work. Our incapacity to understand state vector collapse says nothing about reality, which speaks for itself. Certain brave souls, Penrose and Walker among them, are working on it.

Absolutely! It is the materialist prejudice that creates the quandary, i.e. materialism tends to strong determinism and strong AI and is therefore the polar opposite free will and theology. Free will is self-evident as you say.

The work of Penrose, Walker et al clarifies the inability of physics and biophysics to explain consciousness!

884 posted on 02/24/2003 9:18:09 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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