Professor Refuses Letters of Recommendation to Creationist Students

AP Breaking News ^

[governsleastgovernsbest]

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-evolution-dispute0130jan30,0,713004.story

Professor's Letter Refusal Causes Probe By LISA FALKENBERG Associated Press Writer

January 30, 2003, 9:50 AM EST

DALLAS -- A biology professor who refuses to write letters of recommendation for his students if they don't believe in evolution is being accused of religious discrimination, and federal officials are investigating, the school said.

The legal complaint was filed against Texas Tech University and professor Michael Dini by a student and the Liberty Legal Institute, a religious freedom group that calls Dini's policy "open religious bigotry."

[general_re]

...you are attacking the guy because a bunch of catholics whined about what he was saying and kicked him off an email list?

You tell me what the issue is, after reading #829. Then we'll talk some more about lies and frauds being used to defend fairy tales...

[Jael]

Neither of those headers show what anything of the kind!!! What are you talking about? Maybe you don't know how Eudora works?

[Jael]

The question is not answered by you. Xman already posted the proof that the fake drawings are STILL being used.

I checked a book out of the library, the copyright is pretty recent, within ten years I think. Yet there are the Haekel drawings in all their glory. As if they were true.

It's a kids book.

Yes, the drawings are still being used. It's my understanding that the NAS still uses them also.

Yet that is ok with you.

[Jael]

None of what you posted shows what it is purported to show. It's obvious those are just letters from someone claiming something. They are not letters that show any kind of faked headers.

[general_re]

None of what you posted shows what it is purported to show. It's obvious those are just letters from someone claiming something. They are not letters that show any kind of faked headers.

I'm afraid you don't understand. The messages in question were purported to be from the "Free Catholic" mailing list; however, an examination of the headers clearly shows that they were not sent by the mailing list, as they (at first) appeared to have been - they were, in fact, forged to make it appear as though they came from the "Free Catholic" mailing list, when they did not. The mails in question were forgeries, plain and simple. It's obvious to anyone with even a modicum of experience with mail servers.

Perhaps you don't understand how SMTP headers work? Or perhaps you'd like to continue discussing people who lie to promote an agenda?

[general_re]

But don't take my word for it - have a look at the context.

And then let him deny it.

[Jael]

How about a link to that?

[Con X-Poser]

<< You have not shown that Futyma's college-level textbook is misrepresenting Haeckel's drawings, only that they "DO" appear there. >>

That was my claim in the first place - which you said was wrong.

*** *** ***

X: In 2003 – believe it or not – Haeckel’s drawings still appear in many high school and college textbooks. Among them are: "Evolutionary Biology", Douglas J. Futuyma (Third Edition, Sunderland, MA: Sinauer Associates, 1998).

V: Regarding the Futuyma book, I was immediately suspicious since Futuyma is too much the leading light to be so out of touch. So I Yahoo!ed around and it didn't take long.

The charge seems to have have a lot of life in creationist publications. Jonathan Wells said it prominently in Icons of Evolution, and that was wrong.

X: YOU were wrong. It IS in the book.

<< Many sources on Haeckel do not accuse him of fraud. >>

Do you?

They certainly SHOULD accuse him of fraud if they are honest.

[Jael]

That icon you are talking about isn't an icon of the pages owner. It's a cartoon icon of a well known preacher.

[Jael]

I understand STMP. Do you understand the functions of Eudora?

[VadeRetro]

Creationists are always pretending they don't understand issues of context. That's why it's so interesting to look at the sources for their quote salads.

Haeckel is historically important and so are his drawings, which--guessing wildly here---have been reproduced in creationist books 10 to one over all other genres combined since 1990. Should creationist books be banned for perpetuating the Haeckel fraud?

Context is important. You run around telling people that (Haeckel's embryos, Piltdown Man, Nebraska Man ...) are STILL BEING cited in textbooks. Some idiots have even posted that Piltdown Man is still being used in high school textbooks.

I'm particularly dubious about claims concerning modern HS textbooks. I went to high school in a fairly backward (think "Appalachia") part of the country 40 years ago and never saw anything about Haeckel's embryos, or Piltdown Man, or Nebraska Man "STILL BEING" used, although our biology teacher did a creditable job of explaining more to us then about evolution than any creo seems to know in 2003.

[general_re]

Let him deny it.

[VadeRetro]

It IS in the book.

Haeckel's drawings might be expected in any book that includes historical background in its treatment of biological science. I'm happy when you bludgeon by pretending to be stupid. I'm happy because the lurkers have the choice of believing you ...

... or not.

[VadeRetro]

That icon you are talking about isn't an icon of the pages owner. It's a cartoon icon of a well known preacher.

It's an EASY mistake to make. But, not being a creationist, I'll remember not to make it again.

[Jael]

In your hurry to try and frame the guy, you should of read a bit further.

>It's one thing to spam us individually, but when one illegally gets one's post
>onto a newsgroup one has been banned from, that's something else. Teno (of
>Wisconsin, evidently, according to one of his comments) has managed to do this.
>How he got through Charles' filters onto the vega.vec.net version of this list
>is amazing. -BG

Nah, he just happened to stumble on a back door. He wasn't even aware he
did it.

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by pure dumb
luck.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=6e0r6c%24b3s%241%40alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu&rnum=15&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dteno%2Bgroup:bit.listserv.catholic%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D6e0r6c%2524b3s%25241%2540alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu%26rnum%3D15

[Jael]

You really ought to have that post removed, seeing as how it didn't happen the way those originals post say they did.

>It's one thing to spam us individually, but when one illegally gets one's post
>onto a newsgroup one has been banned from, that's something else. Teno (of
>Wisconsin, evidently, according to one of his comments) has managed to do this.
>How he got through Charles' filters onto the vega.vec.net version of this list
>is amazing. -BG

Nah, he just happened to stumble on a back door. He wasn't even aware he
did it.

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by pure dumb
luck.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=6e0r6c%24b3s%241%40alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu&rnum=15&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dteno%2Bgroup:bit.listserv.catholic%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D6e0r6c%2524b3s%25241%2540alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu%26rnum%3D15

[general_re]

Let him deny it.

[Jael]

Hey look, you tried to make an innocent person look guilty of something they didn't so. You retract it.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=6e0r6c%24b3s%241%40alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu&rnum=15&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dteno%2Bgroup:bit.listserv.catholic%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%26selm%3D6e0r6c%2524b3s%25241%2540alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu%26rnum%3D15

[VadeRetro]

Between what general_re has uncovered and what YOU have uncovered, it's clear I'm beating a well-and-often-killed horse here.

[general_re]

It's clear from that post that what is being characterized as "dumb luck" is him slipping past the filters.

Let him deny it.