NORTH DAKOTA LEGISLATURE: Tobacco ban gets lit up in House

grandforks.com ^ | 21 January 2003 | Xiao Zhang

[Max McGarrity]

"Again IMO, it's the habit of the smoking ritual that's hard to break, not the physical dependence on the drug itself. " ...Actually it's both.

Actually, several recent studies have shown Lockjaw to be right (as usual). According to researchers at Duke University's Nicotine Research Program, "the urge to light a cigarette can be more compelling than the physical need for nicotine."

[Kerberos]

"the urge to light a cigarette can be more compelling than the physical need for nicotine."

Oh there is no doubt that the psychological addiction is quite substantial. And in all people one can be more compelling than the other.

But the physical addictive properties of nicotine, which are very substantial, have been know for well over 30 years, long before the cigarette nazi's came to power.

[Max McGarrity]

But the physical addictive properties of nicotine, which are very substantial, have been know for well over 30 years, long before the cigarette nazi's came to power.

Depends on your definition of "addiction." Until anti-smoker crusader C. Everett Koop changed that definition in 1989 (it wasn't officially accepted until 1996), smoking was a "habituation." Now, of course, the term has been so corrupted it covers everything from video games to sex to chocolate--just so it could include smoking.

From the Harvard School of Medicine: "Distinctions Among Use, Abuse, Dependence, and Addiction" - "Even under most established constructions of addiction, not all drug dependent patients evidence addictive behavior. For example, in most civilized countries, under nearly all traditional circumstances, people who are nicotine dependent do not evidence addiction with its attendant anti-social behavior pattern."

And from Surgeon General Luther Terry: ""Undoubtedly, the smoking habit becomes compulsive in some heavy smokers but the drive to compulsion appears to be solely psychogenic since physical dependence does not develop to nicotine or to other constituents of tobacco, nor does tobacco, either during its use or following withdrawal, create psychotoxic effects which lead to antisocial behavior...In contrast to drugs of addiction, withdrawal from tobacco never constitutes a threat to life. These facts indicate clearly the absence of physical dependence." --'Relationship of Smoking to Use of Addicting Drugs' (Surgeon General Luther L. Terry's Report on Smoking and Health)

Ask yourself how, if smoking is so damned addictive, there are 48 million ex-smokers in this country today, and the vast majority of them quit without "smoking cessation" aids and products.

[Kerberos]

”Depends on your definition of "addiction." Until anti-smoker crusader C. Everett Koop changed that definition in 1989 (it wasn't officially accepted until 1996), smoking was a "habituation."”

Perhaps you should read the Surgeon Generals Report of 1988, delivered to Congress by Otis R. Bowen M.D., a Republican, who was Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, under George H.W. Bush, also a Republican, at the time. The report can be found here: Nicotine Addiction

In his transmittal letter to the House of Representatives Dr. Bowen states the following:

”"The issue of tobacco addiction has been addressed in previous Surgeon General's Reports and in the medical literature beginning in the early 1900s"

Notice that Dr. Bowen uses the phrase “tobacco addiction” and not “tobacco habituation”. That statement alone gives one cause to have to seriously consider your allegation of a Vast Left Wing Conspiracy (VLWC) occurring in 1989 and officially accepted in 1996.

But if you read through the report you will find much more useful information concerning the addictive properties of Nicotine and many references to other sources of information concerning the topic. Of particular interest to perhaps yourself and others on this thread is the following quote, which can be found on page 4 of the Introduction to the report.

1. Cigarettes and other forms of tobacco are addicting.
2. Nicotine is the drug in tobacco that causes addiction
3. The pharmacologic and behavioral processes that determine tobacco addiction are similar to those that determine addiction to drugs such as heroin and cocaine.

[Max McGarrity]

Oh, I've read Koop's report in its entirety and neither it nor Bowen's pronouncements change a thing I've said, particularly since Bowen is clearly wrong as I pointed out to you with the quote from Terry. Since "addiction" is a medical diagnosis, perhaps you should read the current DSM-IV or ICD 10 instead of simply accepting the hysteria the anti-smoker cartel (and yes, many of them are doctors) preaches.

[Kerberos]

"and neither it nor Bowen's pronouncements change a thing "

LOL

IOTW I don't care what the facts are, I am going to believe what I believe. I got to tell you that sounds like every other rational I have heard from an addict.

Is there something else at issue for you here?

[Max McGarrity]

IOTW I don't care what the facts are, I am going to believe what I believe. I got to tell you that sounds like every other rational I have heard from an addict.

I provided you with FACTS at odds with your statements, but you--as is typical of zealots--choose to discount or ignore them. Your first sentence above describes you perfectly, and your last is proof that the hysteria has worked, at least on you.

Is there something else at issue for you here?

There certainly is. As a friend of mine wrote recently: "This is a holy war about a belief system, a religion if you will, a religion that can only see tobacco smoke as some great Satan to be exorcised. Facts don't matter in this debate nearly so much as beliefs matter. This modern-day Inquisition tolerates no opposition, no dissent. Any who question the accepted beliefs is damned. Any who doubt the message are cast out of the holy ranks. Any who voice a contrary opinion are treated as heretics (branded as "addicts").

Now, would you care to address the PROOF I posted?

[Kerberos]

"Now, would you care to address the PROOF I posted? "

No. Because the issue you are trying to debate is so well established that it is now days currently beyond debate.

Sorry you can't see the truth for what it is.

[Max McGarrity]

I see you're still having trouble with that "mote" in your eye.

Typical.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

BUMP