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Fear the Government that Fears Your Guns?
Vanity, sort of

Posted on 01/12/2003 7:43:33 AM PST by Cacophonous

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To: Bob Mc
Saddam (as evidenced by his multiple assaults on Iran, the Kurds and Shiites of his own country, his Kuwait invasion of 91...

The attacks on Iran were as a result of a war with Iran in which Iran was also attacking Iraq, the Shiites and Kurds were already under his power, and he attacked Kuwait (with the tacit endorsement of the Bush 41 administration) because the Kuwaitis were stealing his oil, a fact often overlooked by "historians".

Please let me be clear: I don't admire, support, excuse or endorse anything Hussein is or does. I don't want the US to get into a war that is unnecessary, that is not in the best interests of the US, and that will make us look like hypocritical bullies. I also am not convinced it will be over in 48 hours, and that American casualties will not be greater than the rosy predictions. We will win, undoubtedly, but I don't think it is worth it.

41 posted on 01/13/2003 5:27:56 AM PST by Cacophonous
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To: Cacophonous
Nobody in their right minds wants war. It is ALWAYS too messy, too costly and too many lives are lost. Unfortunately, the alternative is worse. The problem here is - What are you going to do when they (the terror cartel, rogue states, Islamic radicals) come looking for us?

The old shibboleth of waiting to strike after you have been struck was a cornerstone doctrine of this nation for decades. With 911, the pre-emptive strike is in. I have to agree with that decision since the willingness of many agents in this world to use WMD on American soil is just too much to risk. If intelligence gives evidence on top of the willingness and intent that are already there, well then...

Again, the war on terror entails the destruction of those who would aid terror and, realistically applied, that means getting the root and branch if you wish to avoid the fruit.

The old days of protective oceans to insulate our nation or periodic wars where everyone goes back to respective corners and lays low are gone. Being Mr. Nice guy and stepping into the noose that terrorists (the hammer)or globalists (the anvil) eagerly provide will do nothing to protect Americans. As conservatives have always said, the first function of an organized government is for the protection of the citizenry.
42 posted on 01/13/2003 6:45:20 AM PST by WorkingClassFilth (Defund NPR, PBS and the LSC.)
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To: WorkingClassFilth
This thread might be of interest - the article is from MIT:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/821794/posts
43 posted on 01/13/2003 7:47:14 AM PST by WorkingClassFilth (Defund NPR, PBS and the LSC.)
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To: Cacophonous
I respect your opinions. I have a school teacher friend who is alot like you, we agree he is a radical moderate. SALLUTE!
44 posted on 01/13/2003 10:26:55 AM PST by Blue Collar Christian
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To: Blue Collar Christian
Thank you. But I'm a little puzzled that my views (placing the interests of the US over those of the globalists) appear as either radical or moderate. I proudly label myself a paleo-conservative.
45 posted on 01/13/2003 12:01:35 PM PST by Cacophonous
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To: Cacophonous
I think, at least for myself, that what you call a globalist, I call looking out for the US. I only got one black eye before I became the nice big kid on the playground that would kick you if you started something with me. You seem to want to have conclusive evidence to display before the world before you plant your boot in a butt. I can live with that. I just don't want another USS Cole, or WTC as a display before someone gets a size 14 Tony Lama where the sun don't shine.

You really think you're a fossil?
46 posted on 01/13/2003 3:21:52 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian
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To: Blue Collar Christian
Sadly,I fear I am a fossil.

My problem with the whole middle east situation has nothing to do with being prepared--which no thinking person can oppose.

I have trouble with the notion that we were attacked because the attackers "hate freedom". This is a non-sensical notion, in my mind, as I don't think people honestly hate abstractions. It's like hating love, or hating serenity. One may yearn for freedom, and envy those that have it; those are far cries from "hating" freedom, especially to the point of waging war against them.

So obviously, there is more to it. Perhaps our irrationally undying support for Israel, the sworn enemies of Islam, has something to do with it. Israel is a real place, people by real people...not an abstraction.

And I can see no justification for our support of Israel. I have no problem with Israel; I have no problem with their "right to exist" (another abstraction, but never mind that). I just don't see why the US has to concern itself with it, why we send more money in foreign aid to Israel than to anyone else; it's not like the Israelis lack, in either funds or military capabilities.

To make a short story long, I think the way to avoid getting hit again is to follow the advice of that greatest of Americans, George Washington: not engage in foreign entanglements or enchanting alliances. In other words, mind our own business.

I also resent the accusation, propagated by many well-meaning people, many even on here, that just because I ask that the US not run off half-cocked that I am somehow anti-American, or anti-military, or anti-Bush; some have even suggested that I am pro-Saddam! That truly offends me, and I thank you for not stooping to that level.

47 posted on 01/13/2003 3:47:33 PM PST by Cacophonous
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To: Cacophonous
Hey, my Fossilized FRiend,

Check out http://www.foreignpolicy-infocas.org/papers/usisrael.html
48 posted on 01/13/2003 4:57:13 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian
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To: Cacophonous
"I think the way to avoid getting hit again is to follow the advice of that greatest of Americans, George Washington: not engage in foreign entanglements or enchanting alliances. In other words, mind our own business."

There is no such thing as a return to an un-entangled state.

Like it or not, we are in the tall grass now. Our very lives, because of consumption and economics, have us up to our necks in foreign entanglements. Protecting ourselves in the midst of those entanglements is the trick and the sooner people realize that that state is called 'empire' the sooner we'll be able to formulate effective foreign policy while retaining our national security.
49 posted on 01/13/2003 7:31:00 PM PST by WorkingClassFilth (Defund NPR, PBS and the LSC.)
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