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SF Chronicle EDITORIAL: Take care of the troops [they admit "there is much catching up to do"]
SF Chronicle ^
| 12-27-02
| Editorial
Posted on 12/27/2002 4:11:11 AM PST by Oldeconomybuyer
Edited on 04/13/2004 2:41:34 AM PDT by Jim Robinson.
[history]
WITH THOUSANDS of troops deployed in Afghanistan, and many more preparing for war with Iraq, the United States has yet to fully address one of the fundamental issues of military readiness.
The men and women who are being summoned to these immediate and potential conflicts should not also be forced to battle each month to make ends meet.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: military; sanfrancisco
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
They just couldn't bring themsleves to openly admit that
it was Bill Clinton that caused this situation in the first place!
2
posted on
12/27/2002 4:18:27 AM PST
by
larry h
To: Oldeconomybuyer
Thank-you GW for the two pay raises.....but where was the outrage from this paper from 93 to 2000......hmmmmmm?
To: Oldeconomybuyer
This is not news. It is a disgrace, however. The military has suffered from being underpaid all along. That includes most of the officers. I can speak from experience when I say that military families eke out their existence through creativity and sheer willpower. Military wives are true saints when it comes to durability, flexibility, and overall management of resources. May God grant them a special place in heaven.
4
posted on
12/27/2002 4:31:33 AM PST
by
Movemout
To: Movemout
You don't start a family on E-3 pay, just like you don't start a family when your job includes phrases such as "Would you like fries with that?"... Common Sense...
5
posted on
12/27/2002 4:34:06 AM PST
by
dakine
To: dakine
I started a family on E-4 pay back in the 70s. I think it was around $230/month. It was hard but eventful. Even an E-3 is beyond the "do you want fries with that stage" as far as individual training and capability are concerned. Not to mention motivation and willingness to engage our eneimies in a deadly match. Give the guys a little credit.
6
posted on
12/27/2002 4:40:46 AM PST
by
Movemout
To: Movemout
I was an E-3 the day I graduated Basic....No way was I above a "Fries" category after only 7-weeks....
7
posted on
12/27/2002 4:42:32 AM PST
by
dakine
To: dakine
Well maybe that is the way things work these days. In my day, you might have mosquito wings when you graduated basic training amnd you might not. PFC was a big deal. C'est la vie, c'est la change.
8
posted on
12/27/2002 4:44:57 AM PST
by
Movemout
To: Oldeconomybuyer
Ok, I like pay raises as much as the next guy, but a lot of this stuff is just maudlin BS. As a (relatively) senior enlisted, I see people with money problems all the time. 99% of them fall into one or both of the following categories--
- People with consumer debt (nice car, stereo, and TV, but can't afford diapers or food)
- People who can't control their breeding habits (No, you cannot raise a family of six on an E-4's pay)
It may sound like trolling, but it's true. Yeah, the pay is low and the job sucks sometimes, but that's just something you have to deal with. There's low pay and sucky jobs in the outside world, too.
Also, many people forget that military people can get a lot of things for free or at a reduced cost. Want to go to college? There's the GI Bill, tuition assistance, IVG, Hazelwood Act, etc. Insurance? It doesn't cost me a dime for me to go to medical, or to take my wife to the Naval Hospital. Housing? Navy pays for it (you can be dumb and rent; or you can be smart and buy, let the Navy pay your mortgage, and pile on any extra money you have at the end of the month).
I'm an E-6 with a wife and no kids. My wife doesn't work, she goes to school. According to my last LES, I make $927 a payday, after taxes ($1854 a month post-taxes). I don't have a second job.
Still, I was able to pay off my car, go to college, take nice vacations, and still have a nice place to live (I'm one of the dumb guys who lives in Navy housing). I sack away about $400 a month in various savings plans. And I was an E-1 once; I know it's tough, but it can be done. It just takes a little planning and a little self-control.
9
posted on
12/27/2002 4:46:21 AM PST
by
Skwidd
To: Skwidd
You are an extraordinary human being. You prove the exception. There are more folks like you in the miltary than anywhere else on earth. I appreciate you making my point.
10
posted on
12/27/2002 4:50:09 AM PST
by
Movemout
To: dakine
You are correct. Most of the families at or near poverty level are headed by very junior enlisted men who did not crunch the number of dollars required to adequately support a wife and at least one child.
Military family destitution is not a new or small problem. I recall in the late 80's the b!tch congressidiot Patsy Schroeder calling the Commandant of the Marine Corps on the carpet because he initiated a policy that prohibited married civilians from enlisting. He was only looking out for their best interests.
11
posted on
12/27/2002 4:52:22 AM PST
by
roderick
To: Skwidd
I'm an E-7 and my spouse just retired as E-7, I haven't lived over my ever while being in military, being in debt scares me....You are doing the right way...
12
posted on
12/27/2002 5:03:03 AM PST
by
dakine
To: Movemout; Severa; GatorGirl; MoJo2001
May God grant them a special place in heaven. Amen to that! I know I'm missing more than a couple of FReeper Military Spouses...ladies, if you'll ping 'em?
I can remember speeding home after spending nearly $100 at the commissary (in '76) to take the credit card bills out of the mailbox. They had to wait until the mid-month check! Mrs. HJ also got very creative with peanut butter during one 2-week stretch.
13
posted on
12/27/2002 6:28:28 AM PST
by
HiJinx
To: Skwidd
I'm an E-6 with a wife and no kids. My wife doesn't work, she goes to school. According to my last LES, I make $927 a payday, after taxes ($1854 a month post-taxes). I don't have a second job. Still, I was able to pay off my car, go to college, take nice vacations, and still have a nice place to live (I'm one of the dumb guys who lives in Navy housing). I sack away about $400 a month in various savings plans. And I was an E-1 once; I know it's tough, but it can be done. It just takes a little planning and a little self-control.
You are right on the mark. Few get rich serving in the Enlisted ranks of the military.It is not intended that they do.If you are looking to become upper middle class financially look elsewhere.
In 1976 I seperated from the Army with health problems after nine years active duty. I never one time felt I was over payed but I never felt I was underpaid either.
Military life had some pretty serious draw backs but the money was not one of them.
Food was cheap, housing and medical care were both included, smokes and other vices were subsidized, entertainments and activities were almost free and of far better quality that I enjoy today as a retired business person. Most of my actuall monetary remuneration was mine to do with as I pleased. Basic needs were already covered. All in all I lived very well so far as creature comforts went. And being a creature, I liked it!
I truly loved the military and was willing to overlook it's little discomforts in exchange for it's many rewards. Not the least of which rewards was being very very proud of who I was and what I was doing.
Is it possible that part of the problem, without a draft, might be Who we are paying?? Not how much we are paying them?? Just my humble thoughts.
14
posted on
12/27/2002 7:27:52 AM PST
by
carpio
To: carpio
Is it possible that part of the problem, without a draft, might be Who we are paying?? Not how much we are paying them?? Just my humble thoughts. True, to an extent. Everbody goes through that crazy-cash phase when they first start making their own money--we buy ourselves the things we always wanted but mom and dad wouldn't spring for. I aimed low and bought cowboy boots (hey, I wanted 'em!), but nowadays I see people (military and civilian) buying huge pickup trucks, Rottweiler pups, and big-screen TVs with their first paychecks.
15
posted on
12/27/2002 8:11:14 AM PST
by
Skwidd
To: souris; SpookBrat; Victoria Delsoul; MistyCA; AntiJen; SassyMom; bentfeather; GatorGirl; radu; ...
Thanks for posting this article and for the link at the FoxHole.
BUMP!
16
posted on
12/27/2002 8:35:48 AM PST
by
SAMWolf
To: dakine
The kid at McDonald's isn't on call 24 by 7, nor is he expected to put his life in jeapordy for the company. There's a hel* of a difference here.
17
posted on
12/27/2002 8:40:08 AM PST
by
gitmo
To: SAMWolf
bump
To: gitmo
That McD. kid doesn't get 6 weeks of paid vacation each year...The military is an acquired taste, people are not in it for the $$$, like the Navy E-6 wrote, people put themselves in debt.
19
posted on
12/27/2002 8:47:50 AM PST
by
dakine
To: HiJinx
I was single when I was in the military, but I remember some of the married guys sending home most of their pay and not gambling and hitting the EM club. Others spent everything they had and then borrowed more.
It's tough to raise a family but like most jobs, in a lot of cases it's up to the individual. Some make bad decisions.
20
posted on
12/27/2002 8:55:53 AM PST
by
SAMWolf
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