U.S. Social Security May Reach To Mexico

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ ^ | 12/19/2002 | Jonathan Weisman

[isthisnickcool]

And the state office(s) refused to pursue any action against the client. Our tax dollars at work.

My friend was involved in building a computerized system that easily found the fraud in one state. The system found people getting benefits that were married when they said they were not, found various assets that excluded the person from benefits, etc,etc. It worked so well that they state quit using the software.

My friend says that if each state simply pulled each SS# from their computers and compared them with all the other states they would find a large number of people double or triple dipping like you describe. Doing something like this would cost almost nothing.

The problem with the story that started this thread, which is a different problem from the Food Stamp/AFDC fraud problem, is that someone can pay into SS here for a few years then get the benefits forever. Which is similiar to the problem with illegals coming across the border and getting all sorts of free services. They have never invested a penny in this country but receive benefits native Americans that come from families that have paid in for generations cannot receive.

But what if Congress allows this? Big deal? This is the like system they have. The taxpayers pay most of Congress's freight and after a few years they get benefits forever.

This is no way to run a country.

[wku man]

"Pushed by the Mexican government..."

Kinda sums up Jorge Bush's entire border policy, doncha think?

I'll concur with your patch and ball sentiments, but as a former soldier. Therefore, breathe...relax...aim...squeeze.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

[justshe]

"...agreement is projected to trigger 37,000 new claims from Mexicans who worked in the United States legally and paid Social Security taxes but have been unable to claim their checks, according to a memo prepared by Ted Girdner, the Social Security Administration's assistant associate commissioner for international operations.

You wrote: I don't know, maybe because they are here ILLEGALLY!?

PLEASE calm down....you are being QUITE condescending. WHERE did you see this policy was for ILLEGALS?

You further wrote: As I said before, you don't "understand" this because you don't want to. "

Hence my comment about calming down. No need to turn EVERY discussion on immigration into a free-for-all, is there?

[concerned about politics]

The second thing is that SS recipients, on average, receive far more than they ever put in. In this way, foreign nationals will be the direct recipients of your tax monies forever - or at least until they die.

Then Bush shouldn't hand over the cash, but stop them from paying SS here. Don't include them at all. That way the US doesn't get screwed carring the burden.
Opps. I get it now. (DUH!)Bush went the wrong way.

[fogarty]

Nope, it's definitely no joke. And it's also no joke that Bush and his administration supports this. They are getting little forward movement on mass amnesty for every illegal alien so they are now taking this route.

I wonder if that 'Board of Governors' deal has some conflict of interest now that Bush is president. Could it be he made some deals with the other Mexican border governors while he was in Texas?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Has the president lost his mind? How is he going to explain this AND propose changes in the SS system to preserve it for the American people?

[MissAmericanPie]

Get even with them, write in Tancredo for President 2004. Give them a taste of what it means to be a traitorous party, non-existance. We do not need a Liberal, and a Liberal lite party. Bush is to Americans what Chernoble is to Russia, a radioactive poison that should be hurled out of office.

[Republic of Texas]

Why can't they claim their checks?

[Boonie Rat]

Let's understand something here:

First,employees are not making a contribution into a retirement program, but are, in reality, paying a "special income tax" which is deducted from their wages and paid to the federal government by the employer. The tax is an indirect or excise tax imposed on the employee for the "privilege" of being employed by an employer.

Second, employers are not making matching contributions into a retirement program for their employees, but are, in reality, paying an excise tax for the privilege of having individuals in their employ.

Third, there is no retirement trust fund. The Court stated:"[t]he proceeds of both taxes are to be paid into the Treasury like internal-revenue taxes generally, and are not earmarked in any way."Since these income taxes are not earmarked in any way, there are no individual retirement accounts. Both taxes are general fund income taxes, which are used to pay the general expenditures of the federal government. This means Congress can spend these so-called "retirement contributions" to pay for military appropriations, foreign aid, salaries of federal employees, etc.

In 1960, in Flemming v. Nestor (363 US 603), the Supreme Court provided further insight into the nature of the Social Security program. The Court stated that "...eligibility for benefits...[does] not in any true sense depend on contribution through the payment of taxes." Since the Social Security program is a form of welfare, an individual who has not paid a penny in Social Security taxes can receive various benefits under the program.

The Court also ruled that individuals paying Social Security taxes do not acquire any property or contractual rights as they would in an insurance or annuity plan. In addition, the Court stated: "[c]ongress included in the original act, and has since retained, a claim expressly reserving to it "[t]he right to alter, amend, or repeal any provision' of the Act."

Additionally, Congress does NOT participate in Social Security!

Boonie Rat

MACV SOCOM, PhuBai/Hue '65-'66

[justshe]

***Bush is to Americans what Chernoble is to Russia, a radioactive poison that should be hurled out of office. ***

Oh, get real.

[bimbo]

WE NEED SOME REAL AMERICA FIRST LEADERS TO STEP UP AND STOP THIS INSANITY!

Just a reminder ... In the 2000 election, there was a candidate who gave the Immigration Problem top priority - Pat Buchanan - he was practically crucified by many on FreeRepublic. Pat was not even allowed to participate in the presidential debates to raise the issue.

[Bill Davis FR]

it has already happened...millions of mexicans and po boxes along the border and receive monthly SS checks...billions of SS dollars flow south each month...

[DannyTN]

Let's just make sure that they aren't eligible for benefits that they haven't paid into the system plus a minimal interest rate, say t-bill.
It all effectively goes in one pot anyway (regardless of all the political talk of a lock box, Mexican payments into SS would increase the supply of dollars available to the government thereby lowering the interest rates the US pays.
As long as the SS debt is denominated in dollars the US can always inflate out of it, leaving future benefits effectively worthless. Which is why we should never issue debt denominated in anything other than US dollars.
And of course the US keeps the money if the beneficiary dies.
If we can limit benefits to the amount paid in + interest, it's a no lose situation.

[69ConvertibleFirebird]

If this goes through I may just stop voting.

Or move to sunny Mexico. What are taxes like there? No doubt I could retire there in my present financial situation. It will take another 7 or 8 years to retire and live here. Not many terrorists trying to blow up the super power that is Mexico.

[BallandPowder]

POWDER..PATCH..BALL FIRE!

Why did the article topics get reduced/deleted from what they were set at? This article is VALID for every item I posted it to? I'd appreciate an answer from the moderator instead of just getting bumped...
ballandpowder

[philetus]

The only reason they could not collect is if they were illegally in this country.

Many illegals use phony or stolen social security cards.

[justshe]

***Why can't they claim their checks?***

From the last paragraph of the excerpted article posted above:

"In addition to the flurry of new claims, an additional 13,000 Mexicans entitled to benefits but cut off by provisions in recent immigration laws could also begin receiving their checks. In a 1996 immigration reform law, Congress decreed that foreigners not legally residing in the United States could no longer claim benefits, unless their home countries were subject to a treaty.

[Fixit]

That would explain this

[Republic of Texas]

Buchanan is un-electable in the US. It may not be nice or fair, but it's the truth. Although he may have some excellent ideas regarding immigration, he simply will never be President here. We need to find another Conservative candidate who is serious about protecting the border.

[philetus]

Here's one that will blow your mind.

Your right.
What needs to be done is against the law.