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To: harpseal
Either the US Supreme Court shall overrule them or they shall face a fate the rules of this web site forbid me from mentioning.

Without in any way desiring, condoning or advocating any kind of unlawful violence or other unlawful behavior, I agree in principal (i.e. I agree, but these particular people may not pay any price for rendering this plainly erroneous and unconstitutional decision). And without intending to violate any rules of this website (quite the contrary, I just wish to stimulate thought and discussion), I think that there is great value in having ALL adults think about the fate that could someday confront those who advocate the confiscation of arms from the general public, especially those making and interpreting the laws.

First, consider recent history, unrelated except in principle to the gun issue: The fact that the Soviet leadership seriously examined the effects of a nuclear exchange between us and the Soviets was an unmitigated good thing. Why? Because it had a deterrent effect on their actions. I seriously believe that in the absence of nukes they probably would've started a conventional WW3 during Stalin's lifetime. In the same way, it would be an unmitigated good thing for those intent on disarming the population to study the massively destructive effects of the second Civil War that they, themselves, would trigger if such a crime were attempted.

This is, by the way, exactly what the Founding Fathers had in mind - to preserve our liberties by any means, including keeping the government "in awe" of the power of the people. For example,

Let them know that no conceivable combination of police and armed forces could stand a chance against even a relatively small fraction of the 80 million gun owners in this country. You see, half of all adults already own guns. They blend in with the population because they are the population. Even many of those that were too afraid, old, young or infirm to actually pick up a gun and fight would aid and abet those who had no such handicaps. As confirmation, the would-be gun confiscators need only look to the Revolutionary War - and I don't think that they want to play the role of the Redcoats.

Let them be painfully aware that what the DC-area "sniper" did a couple months back was NOTHING compared to what a single well-trained and highly motivated rifleman (let alone tens or hundreds of thousands of them), targeting anti-freedom personnel (NOT innocent civilians like the sick "sniper" did) could do to the nation's commerce.

Let them know for a fact that 10-15 million average folk have scoped rifles that are easily capable of hitting man-sized targets out to at least 500 yards, and that most of them regularly crawl around in the woods in a very stealthy manner to hunt animals that are accustomed to being hunted. Let them find out what their taxpayer-funded security details think about the odds of a perfect defense against even 1 in 10,000 of those people.

Let them contemplate the millions of veterans, many highly trained in unconventional warfare, who don't believe that a separation from service negates their solomn oaths to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic...." Let them further contemplate that it has always been US military doctrine to incapacitate/kill the leadership of the enemy forces, so as to render the mass of the enemy directionless and to destroy their morale - and the fact that all of those vets know this doctrine very well.

Let them wonder whether all of the police and armed forces under their control would march in lockstep with their orders, or whether there would be a sizable fraction that would actively resist and take weapons (perhaps even WMDs) to the other side. Let them further wonder whether the apparently loyal soldier or officer at their side is really loyal, as opposed to the possibility that he or she is passing information to the other side.

Let them think again, and again, and again about whether they or their families will survive such a brutal conflict, especially when they know that a confiscation effort would target not only gun owners but their families. It seems to me that even those as dense as Congresscritters and the 9th Circuit judges could figure out that if they take everything away from a person, that person will very quickly lose his or her moral inhibitions. And if that person is armed and skilled with arms.... Would-be confiscators really need to look at this aspect of general human nature.

In short, while I absolutely don't want anyone to think that I want something like this to occur, or that I advocate that anyone commit an unlawful act of violence against any other person, I do want those who would steal our birthright (i.e. all of our freedoms, necessarily beginning with the RKBA) at the point of a gun to be painfully aware that some significant proportion of the 80 million gun owners would be pointing their own guns back. I want them to know that the power that they so nakedly covet won't be acquired for free.

10 posted on 12/16/2002 3:49:19 PM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Ancesthntr
Your comments are appreciated and agreed with. Most especially without any advocacy implied. Those who do not learn from History are destined to repeat it. Lets us presume .1% of firearms owners decide they will resist. and one half of them take at least 1 other person with them before government forces kill them. The numbers work out as follows. Eight hundred thousand dead gun owners (800,000) and four hundred thousand dead others. That is one million two hundred thousand dead bodies and we haven't even discussed the wounded and those in prison.

This is a minimal part of the problem. This presumes it is neat and clean and the only resistance is minimal and that law enforcement wins every shootout and there are no collateral casualties (read innocents who have no stake in the matter slaughtered). This is what the Nith Circuit would like to see? Now if instead of one tenth of one percent (one out of a thousand) decides to actively resist we move the numbers up to 1 percent and of these another 1 percent decide to take the battle to those who do violence to a right guarnteed by our Constitution. That means 80,000 marksmen out there trying to do violence to those who think themselves rulers. If say each of those averages 5 opponents taken out before being neutralized There are another 400,000 dead anbd we haven't even gotten to the second round of violence this decision could beget.

It is to avoid this gfuture that I wrote of it. I do NOT wish to live in a nation undergoing such a civil war.Round III is when those who were on the losing side are either hanging from lamposts or marching into showers before the ovens.

Such is merely the nature of Civil Wars. The decisions forced upon people by such a conflict are to be avoided.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

11 posted on 12/16/2002 6:04:03 PM PST by harpseal
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To: Ancesthntr

20 posted on 12/17/2002 11:14:22 PM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Ancesthntr; harpseal
Posts 10 and 11 are the plot of "Enemies Foreign And Domestic" in a nutshell.

In the novel, all that you discuss comes to pass.

21 posted on 12/17/2002 11:18:50 PM PST by Travis McGee
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