Latest Sniper Victim Died

Glenn Beck Show | 22 Oct 02

[Alissa]

Sad!!! No link yet

[winstonchurchill]

Some have suggested that this is a military sniper. If it is (the evation techniques suggest someone with such training), it almost certainly isn't a United States military sniper (whose rifles are zeroed for 300 meters and who are capable of consistently making shots at that range. Plus, if it was a US sniper the round being used would almost certainly be 7.62 instead of 5.56). It might be someone with European military training, however, where standards of marksmanship are less demanding.

In your opinion, how does this fit with the 'missing' Yugoslav national/French soldier-in-training?

[concerned about politics]

If the media were to start using the politically incorrect "T" word, the November elections would be a Republican shoe-in.
By creating the illusion it's a gun toten' right winger, the Democrats may still stand a chance.

[toddst]

The issue we were discussing is whether the murderer is in fact using a .223 cartride. I don't think he is.

It appears more likely he's using the .223 than anything else IMHO.

[concerned about politics]

In your opinion, how does this fit with the 'missing' Yugoslav national/French soldier-in-training?

France is over run with Muslims. "Rumor" has it the shooter(s) were ME or Hispanic looking. It could be both a French military national and an ME terrorist group.
. A French Muslim in the military who defected to continue the work of Allah, and his "Youths of God ( From the tape supposedly recorded by Bin Ladin)" here in the US.
Everyone could be right. French Muslim military guy joining the US followers of Allah.
He doesn't seem to keep a steady job, because he/they shoot at random times. Who's supporting him/them?

[DeBug=int13]

 

 

Some factors to consider -

 

Gross or microscopic instability, or bullet "yaw", plays a very large part in internal destruction. When a bullet is just microscopically off its gyroscopic axis, it almost always destabilizes and kicks sideways upon striking a body; from a few degrees to ninety degrees or more, and presenting more bullet surface to the tissues and thrashing them as it moves through the body.

 

 

Next, large grievous wounds are due to the liquids in the tissues and cavities. The liquids are put in motion by hydraulic effects, and the destructive effects of tissue and organs will extend in all directions far beyond the initial wound axis. The stomach and intestinal tract, particularly when occupied with a recent meal, is especially dangerous since they could not only be explosively destroyed, but also serve as sources of further bodily destruction with 'secondary missles' of food particles and/or liquid.

 

The .224 diameter projectile, however it is loaded, is certainly capable of all of the above.

 

 

[toddst]

. . . if it was a US sniper the round being used would almost certainly be 7.62 instead of 5.56. . .

I don't think so because the 7.62 produces a great deal more muzzle blast AND has excessive penetration for the ranges involved. No reason to increase being located by using a weapon larger and louder than required. There are other reasons to aviod the 7.62 but this is the primary one, given the circumstances of these shootings.

[concerned about politics]

PS......Another thought.....

He/she/they still haven't shot a Muslim. From what I undersand, this area has many Muslims. It seems as though at least one would have been hit out of 13.
Are the Muslims walking around as though they're safe? Do they look confident they won't be the next target? Are they acting giddish?
That could be a clue, too.

[Technogeeb]

I don't think so because the 7.62 produces a great deal more muzzle blast AND has excessive penetration for the ranges involved

I think the "ranges involved" is additional evidence for why the individual isn't a U.S. military sniper, not evidence for why a U.S. sniper would pick a different caliber. If he is a sniper, he is going to be "best trained" to use his preferred weapon (a 7.62), and he is likely to use it at the ranges in which he trained. He gets no advantage for going to a shorter range, and thus gains no advantage for choosing a lighter cartridge at those shorter ranges. In any case, as a military sniper (unlike a police sniper), there is no reason why he would be particularly concerned about over-penetration.

There is a bit of substance to your suggestion that he might be trying to avoid muzzle flash, but I think a well trained sniper would solve this problem with other means (flash suppressor, careful choice of cartridge loading and perhaps even custom hand-loading, etc.) instead of giving up the significant advantage of familiarity with his preferred weapon caliber. The simple fact is, this guy really isn't all that good, or is pretending to be a lot worse than he is. None of these shots are very impressive unless they're being performed under conditions of which we are unaware (such as from a moving vehicle). Considering the evidence, I can't really see why a U.S. military sniper would deliberately handicap himself if he were intending to perform the actions that we have seen this shooter commit.

[Technogeeb]

In your opinion, how does this fit with the 'missing' Yugoslav national/French soldier-in-training?

I didn't hear about that. Would you happen to have a link to that story?

[walkingdead]

Hey, have the coppers been checking sewers as escape routes for this sniper. What if he's not in a car at all. What if he just pulls his putred butt outta the sewer, and shoots then scoots.

[fivecatsandadog]

from one end of the county to the other? ewww

[Ronaldus Magnus]

Gross or microscopic instability, or bullet "yaw", plays a very large part in internal destruction...

That's the same unsubstantiated hype put out by everyone from McNamara's underlings in the 1960's to the gun writers of today. My experience is that a .224" diameter bullet at about 3,000 feet per second just doesn't cut it or real, living beings. Regardless of how it works in ballistic gelatin, all of the wound channels I've cut out of the deer that I've shot with a .223 show markedly less disruption than those from equivalent .30" diameter bullets. Whether the bullet is going straight, sideways, or fragmented, the wound channel is simply much smaller than those that get 90% kill ratios. Assuming this shooter isn't getting head shots, I think he is using a faster round than a .223 Remington.

[Ronaldus Magnus]

It appears more likely he's using the .223 than anything else IMHO.

Assuming that all the investigators have to go by are the bullet remnants and the cases the murderer leaves next to his Tarot cards, there is no more reason to think the shooter is using a .223 than any other cartridge that uses a .224" bullet. Although the .223 Remington is fairly common, my experience with deer leads me to believe that the murderer is using a faster round.

[Focault's Pendulum]

See #142

Yes of course. I was at work when I posted after you. I was scrolling through several threads, and apparently missed your observation. My apologies for not seeing it. As any speculation can go, yours is also au point.

[walkingdead]

well maybe not that far, but at least past all the commotion and blocked roadways. And yea, that would be kinda ewwwwwish. ha ha

[DeBug=int13]

>Gross or microscopic instability, or bullet "yaw", plays a very large part in internal destruction...

That's the same unsubstantiated hype put out by everyone

I've never paid any attention to McNamara, and, of course, gun writers must write creatively to sell magazines.

No,  my comments in #185 are based on the research of gun shot wounds by Col. Frank T. Chamberlin, U.S. Army Medical Corps. - and ballistic gelatin was not considered in the study I have. Col. Chamberlin's experiences with actual gunshot wounds to people along with his experiments with live animals constitute an interesting body of work. Some of it may be accessable via the net, I do not know.  Sobering reading if you can find it.

 

[syriacus]

My gosh!! What a lot of routes!!

Thanks for the link.

Maybe the sniper shot the driver in order to make sure the driver did not recall him as a particularly unusual "fare."

[syriacus]

Quite possibly environmental whackos with a sympathy to AQ and anything against America.

Therefore, they left a Tarot ("Terra") card.

Some environmental whackos seem to worship the Earth instead of our Heavenly Father. They might see themselves as "minor" gods who are better than most humans.

[syriacus]

Hey, have the coppers been checking sewers as escape routes for this sniper. What if he's not in a car at all. What if he just pulls his putred butt outta the sewer, and shoots then scoots.

Or what if he is riding a bicycle?

[Technogeeb]

Therefore, they left a Tarot ("Terra") card.

Nah, the card just shows that the assassin likes bad puns and wanted to clearly identify that he was an Islamic "Tarot-ist".