Rational Christian look at UFOs and Extraterrestrials.

Well, for starters your quote is from Daniel 4: 10 and 11, and you, not surprisingly 'forgot' to include that this was a dream of Nebuchadnezzar, who was asking for an interpretation of that dream. It in no way was written as fact.......which I'm sure you knew.

In your second reference, you are referring to an encounter between Jesus, who is God, and Satan, who are both capable of seeing things beyond that which is perceptible to humans. It is also not a lesson in geography. Of course, if you do not believe in the Divine, nor the Satanic, you will scoff at this. Then again, if you are wrong, your scoffing will not serve you well in the end, will it?

As to the reference to the waters above in Genesis. Many scientists who are Christians understand that there was a canopy of water over the earth that protected it before the flood. (Check out the lifespans before the flood, compared with the lifespans afterward). In the flood the canopy of water came down as rain, and flooded the earth (btw, all cultures on earth have legends of a universal flood), and was gone, leaving the earth unprotected.

The author of Genesis......most likely Moses......understood the power of God, his working through miracles, and I'm quite sure understood rain quite adequately.

If you allow the spiritual scales to be removed from your eyes, and view Scripture as it really is, without your cynicism, you might just find out what's really there.

Daniel 4:7-8, "I saw a tree of great height at the center of the world. It was large and strong, with its top touching the heavens, and it could be seen from the ends of the earth." Explain to me how this is possible on a spherical earth.

It's 4:10, by the way. Daniel is telling of his dream. The dream was constructed to prophesy for Nebuchadnezzar, not to geologically describe the earth. In other dreams Daniel saw giant beasts etc., that were meant to be interpreted for the future. You're missing the point of these verses.

Matthew 4:8, "The devil took him (Jesus) to a very high mountain and displayed before him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence...." Ditto.

Satan is only allowed to be on the earth right now (and then) in the spirit. Therefore if Jesus and Satan were walking around while Jesus was fasting, they must've been in the spirit. Jesus was "God with us", He was able to go with Satan in this way.

Genesis 1:6-7, "Let there be a dome to divide the water and to keep it in two separate places... and it was done. So God made a dome, and it separated the water under it from the water above it." The author of Genesis 1 doesn't even understand rain!

There's water on Mars, the moon, everywhere. The water on other planets is separated from the water on earth. We've only penetrated a few miles into the earth's interior, there could be vast reserviors of water under the earth, and as a matter of fact scientists do believe there is a vast reservior under Malasia that holds as much water that is in the surface oceans.

Oh, aside from claiming that bats are birds, for example?

Where's this? The bible was written to teach how to know God. If it would've been written describing every scientific knowledge in the world it would not have been understood by anyone until our science caught up with it in the last few years. And there are still some things in it that science hasn't caught up to yet. The separation of waters may be one of those things. Gravity is a strange thing. There should be 0 gravity at the center of the earth. So is there anything at the center of the earth? Wouldn't anything at the center be drawn to the sides of the earth? Maybe. Maybe not.

Explain away:

Leviticus 11:6: The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you.

I'm sure zoologists would be astonished to learn that rabbits chew their cud.

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Leviticus 11 20 " 'All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you.
21 There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground.

No flying creatures of any kind walk on all fours.

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Joshua 10 12 On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon."
13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.
14 There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the LORD listened to a man. Surely the LORD was fighting for Israel!

Oh yes, this makes sense... Shouldn't the EARTH have been stopped still?

Good post. It's fun when two long anwers are posted to the same post to compare thoughts. :^)

There's water on Mars, the moon, everywhere. The water on other planets is separated from the water on earth. We've only penetrated a few miles into the earth's interior, there could be vast reserviors of water under the earth, and as a matter of fact scientists do believe there is a vast reservior under Malasia that holds as much water that is in the surface oceans.

All this may be true. There is not, nor has there ever been, a dome of water hovering over the surface of the Earth.

Jesus was "God with us", He was able to go with Satan in this way.

My problem is one of physics. Assuming Jesus and Satan climbed to the top of the tallest mountain on earth (presumably much taller than, say, Everest), even then how were they able to view all of the nations on earth? You can't see the other side of the earth, no matter how high up you are, last time I checked.

In your second reference, you are referring to an encounter between Jesus, who is God, and Satan, who are both capable of seeing things beyond that which is perceptible to humans.

So why bother climbing a mountain in the first place?

. Many scientists who are Christians understand that there was a canopy of water over the earth that protected it before the flood.

Huh? Were the laws of gravity still in their infancy? How did light get through the hovering ocean?

The really important issue is the uniformitarian premise of modern science, scientism, and atheistic evolutionary naturalism. In contrast, the biblical worldview presumes that our natural system of uniform cause and effect is open to divine, miraculous intervention, and that therefore there can be and have been discontinuities in the past. In particular, the creation, the fall, and the flood all constitute major and profound discontinuities.

The problem with all the discussion about what is meant by a "day" is that even if it were somehow possible to travel back in time (and it isn't possible, in spite of a bunch of good science fiction stories), one could not travel past any of these major continuities and assume that the clock that you had with you would still measure time as it actually was then. You cannot apply current measures of time to what transpired on the prior side of each major discontinuity.

This is a major problem for evolutionary theory. It presumes a uniform time line and attempts to fit all the fossil evidence into it. But the time line is not uniform, and we really have no way to even define, let alone measure, how time transpired back then.

Denying the uniformitarian hypothesis is the pulling out of the table cloth underneath the whole house of evolutionary cards.

So how do we make sense of Gen 1? It is not an eyewitness narative of the actual event, but a revelation by God after the event. It cannot possibly be anything else. As a revelation, I take it as reasonable that it is structured as a sort of thematic outline and summary of what transpired. The structure of seven days is purposeful mainly for teaching us the lesson that time, as well as space, matter, and energy, is a creation of God, and that by counting our time in seven day increments and resting on the seventh we do acknowledge and honor God as the creator and Lord over time, including our time. How long did it actually take God? I have no idea -- He could have done it in an instant or in bilions of years, and we have no meaningful way to measure that would make any distinction between the two.

Denying the uniformitarian hypothesis is the pulling out of the table cloth underneath the whole house of evolutionary cards.

Good God (no pun intended), not another Velikovskian! You folks breed in the dark?

Thanks for the heads up!

Explain away: Leviticus 11:6: The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. I'm sure zoologists would be astonished to learn that rabbits chew their cud.

Leviticus was the rule book to tell people how to live. People back then thought that rabbits chewed their cud. It had to be written for people to understand.

Leviticus 11 20 " 'All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. 21 There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. No flying creatures of any kind walk on all fours.

Bats. "Walking on all fours" was probably a figure of speech.

--------- Joshua 10 12 On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." 13 So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. 14 There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the LORD listened to a man. Surely the LORD was fighting for Israel! Oh yes, this makes sense... Shouldn't the EARTH have been stopped still

Mars shows evidence of having been drawn toward a passing body magnetically. The solar system is a dynamic electromagnetic system not fully understood by science yet. The friction of the oceans should have stopped the earth's rotation long ago. Therefore there is an influence of the roatation of the earth. Plus, God can do what he wants at any time, just like He did with the Red Sea.

There are over 1,000 sites where allegedly the UFOs have crashed.

Damn! So much for impressing us with their technology. They should invest in a little quality control.

All this may be true. There is not, nor has there ever been, a dome of water hovering over the surface of the Earth.

It says the dome separates the waters. The dome of the atmosphere separates the waters from the earth from the water out in space, if that's what it's talking about.

My problem is one of physics. Assuming Jesus and Satan climbed to the top of the tallest mountain on earth (presumably much taller than, say, Everest), even then how were they able to view all of the nations on earth? You can't see the other side of the...

You don't understand the concept of two spiritual beings having a contest of wit. Jesus casn see everything at once, He is "God with us". We are in the flesh age, we don't understand what is possible in the spiritual plane.

Leviticus was the rule book to tell people how to live. People back then thought that rabbits chewed their cud. It had to be written for people to understand.

But, but, I thought the Bible was the infallable word of God? What happened?

Bats.

Nice try. Bats have two legs. Their forequarters evolved into wings. But now that you mention bats, why does Lev. 11:13-19 claim that bats are birds? Seems kind of strange.

"Walking on all fours" was probably a figure of speech.

What? You mean to say that the Bible is capable of metaphor, and that its contents are not all literally true?

It says the dome separates the waters. The dome of the atmosphere separates the waters from the earth from the water out in space, if that's what it's talking about.

But it only makes sense if there's water hovering just on top of the atmosphere. I think you're running the risk of taking the bible, um... er... metaphorically if you think that the water described is really only in the form of ice on the bottom of lunar craters.

You don't understand the concept of two spiritual beings having a contest of wit. Jesus casn see everything at once, He is "God with us". We are in the flesh age, we don't understand what is possible in the spiritual plane.

I don't think you understand. You got two supernatural beings whom you claim can see everything. If that were the case, why couldn't Satan show Jesus every nation on earth from the inside of a dark closet? Why bother hiking up a mountain in the first place?

Good points.

Damn! So much for impressing us with their technology. They should invest in a little quality control.

Their technology is fine. They just don't enforce drunk flying laws.

But, but, I thought the Bible was the infallable word of God? What happened?

It is. How isit not by telling people not to be fooled by the way a rabbit eats?

Nice try. Bats have two legs. Their forequarters evolved into wings. But now that you mention bats, why does Lev. 11:13-19 claim that bats are birds? Seems kind of strange.

Bats appear to creep. "Walking on all fours" must've been a figure of speech. The bible had to be written for people to understand.

What? You mean to say that the Bible is capable of metaphor, and that its contents are not all literally true?

It had to be written for worthy people to understand. The bible is full of parables.

Mars shows evidence of having been drawn toward a passing body magnetically. The solar system is a dynamic electromagnetic system not fully understood by science yet.

Huh? You're telling me that electromagnetism is the dominant force in the Solar System? Ha ha ha.

The friction of the oceans should have stopped the earth's rotation long ago. Therefore there is an influence of the roatation of the earth.

What are you talking about?

It is. How isit not by telling people not to be fooled by the way a rabbit eats?

I'm not sure I understand that sentence of yours, but when the Bible says that rabbits chew their cud, and that's clearly not the case, I'd say you've a case of Biblical errancy on your hands.

Bats appear to creep. "Walking on all fours" must've been a figure of speech. The bible had to be written for people to understand.

But I don't understand. How can creatures with two or six legs walk on all fours? And if the Bible were really written with clarity (and not accuracy) as its main goal, how come its chock full of all sorts of unclear peculiarities (like the origins of the wives of Cain and Abel)?

It had to be written for worthy people to understand. The bible is full of parables.

And yet you've arbitrarily decided that the six-day creation story can't be a metaphoric simplification.