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Spanking: Discipline or violence
Wyoming Tribune-Eagle ^ | 23 Sep | Ilene Olson

Posted on 09/23/2002 12:47:24 PM PDT by SLB

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To: SLB
This is just more "NEW AGE BULLSH*T"!
81 posted on 09/23/2002 2:37:24 PM PDT by INSENSITIVE GUY
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Comment #82 Removed by Moderator

To: TXBubba
LOL! I dunno what he's trying to say. His assumption is that spanking = beating = abuse. Whatever. When it comes down to it would you rather seek advice from someone with one seven year old child or someone with teenage boys and girls?

And believe it or not, most people say that I look like I'm still in my 30's and too young to have 4 teens, so raising these kids hasn't been a hardship.

Time for me to go. Bye!

83 posted on 09/23/2002 2:40:13 PM PDT by Eagle Eye
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To: SLB
I am NOT a social scientist but I have this as an observation: The generation that produced the "Greatest Generation" had almost unanimously a "spare the rod and spoil the child" belief. If they produced the generation responsible for keeping the entire world free from Nazism and Facism then it stands to reason that an assumption can be made that spanking does NOT have the adverse effect that MOST everyone agrees with today.

Conversely the "Greatest Generation" (they mostly did SPARE THE ROD) is responsible for the 'flower child generation'. They planted the seed for the Dr. FeelGood, do your own thing, do gooders that followed Dr. Spock et al religiously producing what we see today as the PC world gone amouk.

Of course this is just this one man's opinion, I could be wrong!!

85 posted on 09/23/2002 2:44:23 PM PDT by PISANO
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To: Sloth
Another important point. The use of the rod needs to be age appropriate. One blow with the rod for a 1 year old perhaps, but 6 to 10 blows for a 16 year old.

If that doesn't bring the kid around to your way of thinking (about the behavior under review) then leave him/her for awhile to reconsider. That gives you time to make sure your anger is under control. Then when you return to the room, if s/he is still being stubborn, you apply another series of age appropriate rod-blows. (Again, maybe one for a 1 year old, up to 10 for an older teen.)

Keep this up until s/he repents. Never in anger, never more than a few rod-blows at a time. The rod will never leave a physical injury. But deep down, the rod works on the child in a way that God designed into everyone of us.

This method will defeat rebellion. Some stubborn, strong-willed children will need more, longer sessions than others, but in the end (yeah, I know) it will work. It breaks the child's will to rebel, but it doesn't break the child's spirit.

Remember, the boy or girl has offended you, the parent, and s/he knows it. S/he needs, and craves, to be corrected, but s/he also needs to be forgiven for the offense.

To correct with the rod, or to punish, without forgiving afterward, leaves a more rebellious and angry child than you had before.

86 posted on 09/23/2002 2:52:06 PM PDT by savedbygrace
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To: Maceman
You are dealing with one child and a girl - very narrow study. Also she may or may not be as wonderful as you think she is. The final judgment on that is society's. If I had the proverbial nickel for the times I've seen some child behaving monstrously while the doting parents smiled serenely, well you know the rest.

I spanked, not beat, my children when they were small and when they reached an age of more rationality between 6-10 (varies with the child), began taking privileges away. Grounding a 3 year old doesn't make much of an impression.
87 posted on 09/23/2002 2:54:05 PM PDT by Let's Roll
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To: SLB
Technology may improve over time but human nature is the same for the first man as is it will be for the next one born and so on. We may live longer, eat better, travel faster, and learn earlier, but human emotion and intellect and personality are a gift from the creator that makes us all spiritual and unique individuals.

The question of spank or not to spank is on the same level of the philisophical right and wrong. Today foolish people believe in relativism and do not believe in aboslutes and right and wrong. On different levels these are the majority of people that want a law to prevent any freedom and control and restrict all human behavior. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't speed, don't eat meat, don't own a gun, don't show God in any form in public!

Spanking is not punishment as much as it is deterrent. It is an action ment to convey to an individual that certain behavior is not acceptable and will result in a negative feedback. Children under the age of reason react to pleasure and pain. Food, shelter, warmth, comfort, and all their physical needs are the primary things on their minds. You can not reason with a 4 year old as to why an electric fan or a hot iron is not something to play with. You could let them injure themselves and discover it for themselves, but that is not parenting. They will remember the small discomfort of a gentle or forceful slap on the butt as a reminder they have over stepped the boundary or attempted something unsafe and will think twice before doing it again. They are not smart enough to be reasoned with nor can a stern look always accomplish what a spanking will. If they are stuborn or stupid they will try again and that is personality at play and eventauly as they get older it is good and evil at play. Yes, in some instances there are just plain evil people in the world that no amount of spanking, discipline, deterrence, will ever help. If they have no conscious or ability to understand or accept right from wrong and are phsycopathic than there is no cure.

There is a reason the Old Testament says to spare the rod will spoil the child. It is the fact that children never provided with the instruction of deterrence end up learning this lesson to late in life with more devestating results. That there are limits to socially accepted behavior, actions for public safety, and moral judgments.

Do all people have to spank? No, not if you are blessed with an intelligent angle or a child that never takes a risk or hardly explores their world or probes any of their limitations or limits. You are lucky. I was lucky and have two beautiful, loving, and charming young ladies for daughters. They learned to respect my voice and only once or twice when they were preschool age did I ever have to spank them and never again for the same reason. They learned the limits and they learned that I was consistant, loving, attentive, and looking out for their welfare and the families welfare and that my wife and I set the limits for acceptable behavior or acceptable exploration of life. They are go getters and not afraid of life and respect others. They are better than me and my wife in many ways. Not all people are the same. So don't tell me spanking is never allowed. Don't use the words always and never because these can only be applied by God who is perfect and only mimicked by the government which is always imperfect but thinks it is god.

88 posted on 09/23/2002 2:55:32 PM PDT by Mat_Helm
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To: SLB
Never let them define the points of the argument

They are using "discipline" in the verb tense. That gives more weight to their side.

RE: Sarasota, FL. a Downtown "Noise" Oridnance stops restaurants from featuring music outside at certain venues.

See? They defined the terms of the argument because it certainly isn't a "music" ordinance.

89 posted on 09/23/2002 2:58:09 PM PDT by perfect stranger
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To: RobRoy
There is a world of difference between "beating" and what I received as corporal punishment. My sister was the good child, I was obstinate, wayward, and continuously pushing the limits. I was spanked so seldom, even at that, that I recall to this day (I am 50) each of them.

First came the interminable discussion when my Father got home of the particulars of the offense, more discussion on the gravity of the offense, more discussion on the appropriate penalty. There were times I wished the old man would just come home and backhand me against the nearest wall, as did happen to one of my friends. Before it was all done, I was ready to go get the pingpong paddle so the old folk would give me the swats, shut the hell up and get it over with.

My point is, what I received was much closer to the due process meted out by our courts than any example that "violence is OK".

Children are different, where one needs but a gentle remonstrance, the next will respond to little short of torture. Being one of the latter, I am glad my parents had the sense, not to mention the legal freedom,to discipline me appropriately. It probably saved me from being married to "Bubba" in a correctional institution for an indeterminate sentence in later life.
90 posted on 09/23/2002 3:30:49 PM PDT by barkeep
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To: Eagle Eye
Something that hasn't been mentioned are the one parent family with just the mother. And that is usally the case.

I divorced when my 3 sons were 13,8,and 6. My children had very good manners (this from there teachers) and knew how to treat women and old people.(open doors, stand up when someone entered the room.) But they didn't just pull this out of thin air. I had to work with them. That also meant they had to have discipline. Spanking worked better than anything when they were small.

If I had let them get one inch ahead of me they would have taken over. There was not one doubt in their mind that they would obey me. Even after they were teenagers and a LOT bigger than me, they knew that I would pick something up and throw it at them if they talked back. (Flame away.)

I had one son to get in trouble once. One is a Marine, one is a physicist. The one that got in trouble is entering pharmacy school next fall. My sons knew that no matter what I would always be there for them but they also knew that I wasn't just their friend but their Mother and THE BOSS.

I don't beleive in the cop out that I couldn't control them because they were boys and bigger. I put the rest of my life on hold to raise my children and I have no regrets.
91 posted on 09/23/2002 4:15:25 PM PDT by georgiabelle
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To: Eagle Eye
Parents are to be parents, not buddies or bestest friends.

Kids have other friends. They don't have other parents.

92 posted on 09/23/2002 4:39:44 PM PDT by SCalGal
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To: Maceman
...personally, I just could not smacking or spanking my little daughter for any reason.

Personally, if I had a daughter, she would have been the most spoiled thing in the world, because I could not only not spank a little girl, I could not even say no to one. My wife informs me, that is why we have boys.

Had no trouble spanking them. Never had to spank any after six years old. They have thanked me for the descipline, especially when they see what has happened to freinds whose parents were too "soft-hearted" to spank.

I know a family that had one boy and one girl. The boy was extremely easy going, pleasant little fellow. He just never disobeyed. Never got spanked. Never neeeded it. Now owns his own business, and takes all the neighborhood kids to the movies on weekends.

Now the girl. Lovely little thing, but stubborn, willful, and defiant. She got a few spanks. She's is now a very successful business woman, but had a few bumps in her teenage years.

Every child and every parent is different. There are absolutely no single rules that will fit every situation. Most parents are very stupid, do all the worng things, have terrible kids, and still, most turn out alright. Of course, this assume there are two parents and they at least try to do the right thing, and are able to shield them from the influence of the public schools.

Hank

93 posted on 09/23/2002 5:30:21 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: newgeezer
We ruined our first kid with bribary tactics and trying to negotiate things. Later, during his early teen years he began constantly undermining his mother's authority, taunting her, bickering and negotiating for a more favorable settlement, over petty details of every single argument. On several occasion he drove her to tears.

Our next 2 boys, we never bribed or negotiated anything. The law was set and that was that. They are much more well adjusted and happy. After about 4 years old, we never ever had to spank them anymore.

94 posted on 09/23/2002 5:45:14 PM PDT by Bob Mc
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Comment #95 Removed by Moderator

To: newgeezer
Bribery.

I had a sister in law who always used bribery, and I really thought it was wrong. I was spanked as a child, and the schools spanked too. It was an effective deterrent. and we respected all adults.

96 posted on 09/23/2002 7:50:55 PM PDT by potlatch
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To: SLB
“Instead of saying, ‘You need to go to bed on time because Mom’s really tired and needs some rest, find a kid reason,” Rubeck said. “A kid isn’t going to care if Mom is tired. A kid reason would be, ‘If you go to bed early tonight, maybe you can earn a reward for the weekend, such as inviting a friend over.’”

my six-year old doesn't need a "kid reason." he would care if i were tired... at six years, he does not believe the world revolves around him... he's not so enthralled in just himself...

97 posted on 09/23/2002 7:59:02 PM PDT by latina4dubya
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
What does your screen name mean?

Do any of you realize how hard it is to type w/a bandaid on your finger? LOL

I have several kids, what works with one doesn't necessarily work the others. But one thing that is certain is that the children must know that the parent is the one in charge. There is definitely a huge difference between behaviors of my generation and the present ones and that being said there is certainly a reason for it.

98 posted on 09/23/2002 8:07:12 PM PDT by tutstar
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To: georgiabelle
Bless you, Mothers of America.
99 posted on 09/23/2002 8:25:38 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Maceman
I'm not going to flame you. I understand where you're comming from. I probably could have gotten away without ever spanking my daughter. She has a very agreeable personality and she cooperates well with adults. My son, on the other hand, understands nothing but a swat on the butt. Time outs, grounding, taking away the things he loves, making him do pushups, explaining, talking, rewarding; these things are annoying to him and nothing more. The threat of three sharp swats on the butt gets his cooperation, though.

Spanking is one part of teaching a child discipline, but not the whole. You need to talk to them, guide them, watch them and try to help them avoid trouble in the first place. Most of all you need to guide by example.

100 posted on 09/23/2002 8:48:29 PM PDT by Marie
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