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Women Believed to be members of Irish Travelers (Woman Taped Beating Child an "Irish Gypsy")
WNDU-TV, South Bend, Indiana ^ | September 20, 2002

Posted on 09/20/2002 9:37:35 PM PDT by Shermy

Some local authorities will not refer to Madelyn Gorman/Toogood and Margaret Daley as 'Travelers' but a local expert on Travelers says from the video he's seen, he believes the women are Irish Travelers. There are an estimated 12,000 to 20,000 Irish Travelers in the United States, mostly in South Carolina and Texas. This is where it is believed Gorman and her family is from.

Travelers live a nomadic lifestyle, moving from town to town in large groups to do seasonal work but they've also been labeled, by some, as scam artists. Most Irish Travelers in this country are descendents of 19th century Irish immigrants. They are also known as Irish gypsies or "tinkers".

Traveler expert

Elkhart resident Don Wright has been investigating the Travelers for 24 years. He's published books including one called 'Scam!'. Wright says many of these scams take place in our own backyard. Between April and October, there are between 15 to 20 families in the Michiana area running these scams. When Wright saw the Kohl's parking lot assault video, he knew this was more than just a case of child abuse.

After seeing the video, Traveler expert Don Wright says he called police and other Travelers and came to this conclusion. "I started making calls right away and found out, yes indeed, they were Irish Travelers."

Reasons behind the beating

Wright believes the beating happened for one of two reasons. "The little girl gave away the scam to an employee or the mom was so ticked off at not getting refunds she took it out on the little girl. As far as beating a kid like this, I've never heard of it."

Wright has heard of Travelers working in the Michiana area. He says certain things in the video lend him to believe these women are Travelers. "The fact that the license plate was from Texas - I knew who they were."

Why do they travel here?

Wright wrote about Travelers who travel from Fort Worth, Texas to Indiana in his 1996 book called 'Scam!' "A majority of the Travelers come to Elkhart a few times a year to pick up travel trailers they use for different scams." Wright says the trailer is a scam in and of itself. They live in it until they can sell it for an exorbitant price. Meanwhile, men of the Travelers do house scams and the women do shoplifting scams. Wright says it is common to take along their children. "This is on the job training for kids. They learn to shoplift at their mothers elbows."

Prosecutor Chris Toth said today that the reason Kohl's began to follow these two women and their daughters was because they had scammed the store before. Police in Fort Worth say in March they arrested Madelyn Gorman for an alleged theft at Kohls.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; US: Indiana
KEYWORDS: gorman; gypsies; irishtraveler; irishtravelers; irishtravellers; madelyne; madelynegorman; madelynetoogood; toogood
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New information on Gorman; sister bails out of jail

Breakthrough in child beating case


Police believe that Gorman's sister,
Margaret Daley, is lying about
Gorman's whereabouts



Police are still searching
for Martha Toogood

1 posted on 09/20/2002 9:37:35 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: dighton
Ping.
2 posted on 09/20/2002 9:45:58 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: Shermy
The gang leader:


3 posted on 09/20/2002 9:46:55 PM PDT by jlogajan
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To: Shermy
Here in East Tennessee we have regular visitations from the Travelers out of South Carolina. A very criminal fraud oriented bunch! I hope this little girl is still alive.
4 posted on 09/20/2002 9:50:00 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: Shermy
That's a strange story! I live in Texas and they say there is a camp of gypsies just outside of my town (I've never been out there to see the camp). The word is that they live in dumpy trailers but drive luxury cars. I wonder if they are part of this group?
5 posted on 09/20/2002 9:50:49 PM PDT by Reagan is King
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To: Howlin
BINGO! We were right!

To all, Howlin and I guessed as much last night.

BTW, my former son-in-law used to have a coin and jewelry store and when those people hit the door it was chaos! They'd come in - at least 6-8 at a time, move in several different directions, pick up and move stuff, steal and move on. Reminded me of a herd of locusts when I saw them while visiting him one day. (And store owners can spot them a mile away!)
6 posted on 09/20/2002 9:51:38 PM PDT by Humidston
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To: Shermy
But the video did not convince me that the child was hurt. Tell me more about these "Travelers", or Gypsies? I was in SC for 7 years and never ran into one.
7 posted on 09/20/2002 9:54:26 PM PDT by widowithfoursons
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To: sinkspur
FYI
8 posted on 09/20/2002 9:54:38 PM PDT by nutmeg
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To: jlogajan
We're gratified to learn you are apparently able to derive some jaded humor from this story of child abuse. Little Martha's horrific torment was not in vain afterall. You said you are a self-avowed libertarian?
9 posted on 09/20/2002 9:55:52 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: widowithfoursons
But the video did not convince me that the child was hurt.

Kid popped back up into the seat like it was regular business.

10 posted on 09/20/2002 9:56:38 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: Shermy
So what do you make of it?
11 posted on 09/20/2002 9:59:00 PM PDT by widowithfoursons
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To: jlogajan

12 posted on 09/20/2002 10:01:27 PM PDT by Kryptonite
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To: Shermy
Yet more evidence that crime is largely a cultural/ subcultural phenomenon rather than a reaction to poverty or "oppression".
13 posted on 09/20/2002 10:05:44 PM PDT by republicman
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To: Cultural Jihad

14 posted on 09/20/2002 10:09:04 PM PDT by jlogajan
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To: widowithfoursons
"So what do you make of it?"

Didn't look like the girl did anything to incite it, unless she said something. Just getting in the car. and the beating went on long time. And with the arm swinging motions of the mom, it sure looked brutal to me, no matter what the kid did. But then it was odd the way the girl seemed to agilely get up from the floor to the seat.

Hard for me to imagine that if blows were landed, especially the big ones, that kid would be so agile. Unless the blows, or the big ones were just threats, perhaps a cultural conditioning? Or the girl is pretty damn used to it - trained to take it in that culture or family.

15 posted on 09/20/2002 10:10:15 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: widowithfoursons
Heck I grew up in Georgia and we knew about the Gypsies over in South Carolina.

There is a big community of them near Aiken. Frankly they have to travel to the midwest to pull off their scams because everyone around here knows about them (and their alleged inbredness, they tend to only marry other Travelers).

I remember a co-worker from Iowa talking about his grandmother back home being cheated by some roofing scam. When I asked the guy if the roofers were from South Carolina. He's like, wow how did you know that!
:o)

16 posted on 09/20/2002 10:14:16 PM PDT by Maximum Leader
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To: widowithfoursons
From an Athens, Georgia paper in 2000:

Irish Travellers' history as storied as group

Hompage of an Irish Traveller, with interesting stuff including MIDI music links.

www.travellersrest.org

17 posted on 09/20/2002 10:14:31 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: Cultural Jihad
My heart goes out to the precious, innocent, beautiful child. But I've been scarred by Notre Dame fans over the years, and well, with this poorly-written article and the Lucky Charms guy, the rest is history!
18 posted on 09/20/2002 10:14:40 PM PDT by Kryptonite
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To: Shermy
Irish Travelers

Four main Irish Traveler communities are identifiable in the United States: those who reside in the area of North Augusta, South Carolina, those from Memphis, Tennessee., the Texas Travelers and the Northern Travelers in the area of New York, New Jersey and Delaware. Scottish Travelers live and work especially in the Appalachian States. The men are still itinerant in the sense that their work takes them away from home for many months at a time, but they have a home base where the women and children stay during the school year. For example, the community of Irish Travelers in North Augusta, South Carolina live in an area called Murphy's Village surrounding St. Edward's Catholic Church. The village is named after the local parish priest who took an interest in them and convinced them to buy property in the area where they have built their homes or established their trailers.

http://www.nccbuscc.org/mrs/pcmr/gypsy.htm#irish

19 posted on 09/20/2002 10:20:39 PM PDT by gg188
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To: Shermy
South Carolina's Top Ten Most Outrageous Cases of Insurance Fraud in 2000

Irish Traveler's - 3 Irish Travelers pled guilty to making false statements on an elderly woman who had a tracheotomy due to throat cancer. They stated in life insurance applications that she was in good health and that they were related! They admitted that they were not related to her and that her health condition was not good.

http://www.scinsnews.com/fraudtop102000.html

20 posted on 09/20/2002 10:23:02 PM PDT by gg188
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