National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Demands Investigation [FL and Reno]

Logically, yes; but since when have liberals ever been consistent?

I disagree. They've always been consistent. It's just that their logic isn't consistent. Therefore, they are consistently illogical.

I am soooooo dithapointed..... I'm jutht going to go home, and have a hissy fit,

I am.

I AM!!!

IMHO, this whole Florida 2000 redux is a petri-dish for further Demofraud attempts in the future. If it isn't, it will still be one by default. Let's see how far and how often the legal envelope can be pushed, in other words. Another piece of Incrementalism, if you will.

"Which state should be most embarrassed?<

Florida or South Dakota?? Hard choice....

Nah. Hands down, South Dakota.

What is the latest news on that anti-gay amendment? How did the vote go in Miami?

It failed. Take Back Miami-Dade is demanding a recount, or something like that.

I just read the Miami Herald headlines and it seemed like it narrowly passed.

Well, it would have helped enourmously if poll workers in those counties had shown up for work that day and opened the polling places. Why poll workers failed to show up in the two biggest counties - and both were heavily favored for Reno - is, uh, a mystery...

Re your post #14 - Same thing in this FL county. They had mock elections just to show off the new machines, intensive training for the poll workers, etc. I notice the news media does not mention that in 65 FL counties these new machines worked great. Paul Begalia made it sound like all 67 counties were a mess, when that is not true. The two biggest counties for Reno were a mess. And, I find that odd.

I meant: enormously

Yeah, and I think those voters will sit it out if the Dem candidate is: McLawyer. He will not go after their votes, since he is bent on winning over conservatives. These FL gay voters will truly be disenfranchised this November, if they believe no one wants their votes.

Re posts #25 and 26 - Did that gay amendment ballot pass or fail? Seemed to me like it passed. Yes? No? If it failed, I still think gay voters are driving this Reno decision to recount; perhaps they wanted that county amendment to become state law.

I am completely on Reno's side . I think there should be numerous court appeals and lawsuits and re-counts and let Broward County and Dade and Palm vote several more times until they can get it right. Janet Reno as AG always ruled this was the American way and it is only fair to give her the same privileges. Neighboring states should also lend Florida buses to haul the illegal Haitians and Jessee Jackson's folks to the numerous precincts without undue waiting to vote at each stop. Only in this way can Janet be rewarded as the minority becomes the majority as she always insisted. It is her right and just due.

The sources I've read report that it lost with a 6% margin and that the bill's sponsors are vowing to retry the amendment (and possibly suing over 'voter confusion').

Because they WANTED an issue to through at JEB in this election.
You should be well prepared to fight that lie.

If you think about it, these machines could be the death knell of democracy. Just as many gas pumps have a chip in them that pumps out lesser amounts of gas and you pay for the gas you DO NOT GET, these machines can be equipped with chips that skew an election ever so slightly in any way you want it...and there is NO RECORD with a properly embedded programming line

Which state should be most embarrassed?
Florida or South Dakota?? Hard choice....

Not really. Floridians get the opportunity to embarrass themselves once every couple of years.

But South Dakotans remind us of their* total lack of intelligence (or maybe it's a total lack of ethics) all the year round.

* This is a collective, not personal, assessment. Heck, I live in the People's Soviet of Washington.

Re posts #25 and 25

OK; it seems like it did pass - but there is already talk of another petition to repeal it. So, still in flux. I think gays probably want this to be a state law via executive order. And, for that, Reno would be the one and only.

Posted on Thu, Sep. 12, 2002

The Miami Herald

Narrow victory for gay rights in Dade

Repeal group vows another petition drive

BY KARL ROSS
kross@herald.com

The fight to preserve a Miami-Dade County law that protects people from discrimination based on their sexual orientation has succeeded, a Herald analysis of uncounted precincts indicates.

Leaders of No to Discrimination/SAVE Dade, the group leading the fight against the repeal effort, claimed victory Wednesday, with results available from all but a few precincts. The repeal supporters vowed to mount a petition drive to try again.

Anti-repeal leaders took satisfaction in the win, although the margin of victory in Tuesday's referendum vote was less than they hoped -- and substantially lower than a Herald/NBC 6 poll last week predicted.

''Six points is still six points -- it's not chump change in a county this size,'' said Jorge Mursuli, one of Say No's organizers.

Take Back co-chairman Nathaniel Wilcox called the election a ''travesty'' and said the group intends to redouble its efforts.

The group forced the referendum vote with a late 2000 petition drive that, while successful, triggered a criminal inquiry that recently led to the arrest of four group members.

''Whatever happens, if push comes to shove, we are going to start gathering signatures again,'' Wilcox said.

``Just because we were not successful this time around, we are not giving up. We will not be slighted. We are not discouraged. We are emboldened.''

Wilcox said that anti-repeal groups outspent Take Back by a considerable margin -- as much as 10-to-1, campaign finance records show.

''They spent millions of dollars to defeat our efforts,'' Wilcox said. ``And we operated on a shoe-string budget and we did excellent.''

Wilcox noted the group's initial petition drive, in early 2000, failed. He said a second referendum could put the repeal movement over the top.

`SPECIAL RIGHTS'

Take Back leaders argued they were seeking to repeal unnecessary ''special rights'' for gays and lesbians, while opponents countered the sexual-orientation amendment added to the county's human rights law in 1998 only ensures equal rights.

A spokesman for the Family Research Council, a national organization that contributed money to Take Back's campaign for a late-hour advertising offensive, also found cause for optimism in the referendum loss.

''Regardless of how the final vote comes out, it's interesting that this vote is so much closer than some of the polls indicated,'' said council analyst Peter Sprigg. ``What this says to me is pro-homosexual activists are much more effective in bullying people into silence in public. But in the privacy of the voting booth, people feel free to express their skepticism about this kind of legislation.''

POLLS MISLEADING

A poll conducted for The Herald and NBC 6 last week showed the repeal being defeated by about 20 percentage points -- a wider margin than the apparent 6 percentage point difference on Tuesday.

Political analysts say polls on touchy subjects such as gay rights, immigrants and minority rights often miss the mark.

''On polls like this people often give the socially desireable answer and don't want to admit to somebody they don't know they're a homophobe,'' said Kevin Hill, a political science professor at Florida International University.

HIGH-PROFILE BACKERS

Hill added that support for the anti-repeal cause from business and elected leaders did little to sway voters.

''Well, who listens to the Beacon Council? What voter cares what they think?'' Hill said about the county's economic development arm. ``It may show that opinion leaders do not have the same kind of influence over people on personal issues like this.''

One voting bloc that seemed to respond to Take Back's emotional appeal was Hispanic voters, who backed the repeal 63 percent to 37 percent, according to a county sample of predominantly Hispanic precincts. The other ethnic groups -- blacks and non-Hispanic whites -- opposed the repeal.

VOTER CONFUSION

Political consultant Armando Gutiérrez said he believes a ''misinformation'' campaign targeting elderly Cuban voters kept the balloting close.

''In my conversations with voters there was a lot of confusion,'' he said. 'They were saying, `I cannot allow people of the same sex to get married.' And I told them the [ordinance] wouldn't do this. I believe a lot of the scare tactics worked.''

National gay rights groups celebrated the Miami-Dade vote.

They said the win, however narrow, will serve as a deterrent to other anti-gay ballot efforts nationwide.

Rick Garcia, director of Chicago-based Equity Illinois, said SAVE Dade combined with the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force (NGLTF) to assemble a formidable political machine.

''It wasn't just press releases and rhetoric,'' Garcia said. ``It was doing the real political work. And I think the referendum demonstrates the maturation of the gay community in understanding the political process.''

NGLTF executive director Lorri L. Jean said she thinks the Miami-Dade referendum could mark a turning point in the struggle for gay and lesbian rights.

''I'm serving notice on the extremists who attack us that wherever they try to to enshrine discrimination against us in the law, we're going to fight them,'' Jean said. ``If we can win in Miami, we can win anywhere.''

Herald database editor Jason Grotto contributed to this report.

You should be well prepared to fight that lie.

Otheres know it's a lie. Mike Griffin, an editor of the Orlando Sentinel, just said on Hardball that So FL Election Supervisors are the "greatest threat to democracy" - and as Chris Matthews tried to pin it all on Gov Bush, Griffin said: "No, the blame lies with the DEM ELECTION SUPERVISORS." So, those who know what is going on already know who won this fight (Gov Bush, for spending $30 million to upgrade the FL voting system). And, who are the LOSERS (the supervisors who didn't teach the 70 year old volunteer poll workers how to turn on the machines in Miami and Lauderdale).

"National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Demands Investigation [FL and Reno]"

not breaking news...Angels in Hell Demand Ice Water (And They Don't Get It!)

Pat Caddell on HARDBALL is now saying the Dem Party hijacked the election from Reno -- and where aren't Alan Dershowitz and Jesse Jackson down in FL now, screaming on behalf of Reno? They're all silent. What do you make of all this, caltrop? Think McLawyer's Machine got so desperate they hijacked it?