Rachel's Tomb to Remain in Jewish Hands

Israel National News (Arutz 7) ^ | Sept. 11, 2002 | staff

[William Terrell]

I think the confusion is that all that's been identified today are Jews. The Jews today are the descendants of the tribe of Judah, or the whole Southern Kingdom, according to which view you favor. There were ten other tribes. They weren't Jews because they weren't part of tribe Judah or the Southern Kingdom.

Jacob wasn't a Jew because he was the father of Judah before there were any tribes at all. He was the father of the other tribes, too. Rachel was in his generation and did not belong to a tribe unless she was living when they were formed. If she was and became part of Judah, then you might call her a Jew, but I've seen no evidence such nicknames were used for the sons of Israel while the tribes were forming around them.

[LostTribe]

> Since Jacob was a father of the tribes, you could make the case that Israel was not a Jew, himself!

That's correct.  Jacob/Israel was not a Jew.  Parents (Here a Grandparent ~50 generations removed from the first Jews) do not take on the titles of their Grandchildren.  By extending that logic, God would be also a Jew.

[LostTribe]

> Basically, he thinks British/Irish/Scottish/whatever are the true Israel, not the Jews.

It's unfortunate that you hold yourself out as a thinking Christian when you are unwilling to actually read and analyze what I'm saying.  (I did not say what you said above, nor do I believe that.  That is a blatant LIE! )

Instead, you resort to a bumper-sticker level of immature mee-too-ism quite unrelated to the facts and the truth.  You should be ashamed of yourself!

[LostTribe]

> >Perhaps you will address these same chastising comments to members of the "Haters Pack of Snakes"

Well, do you have the gonads to apply your criticism uniformly across the thread, or are you going to act like a Democrat?  If you don't have what it takes, better change your screen name to Tom Daschle.

[jude24]

Then why do you appear on almost every thread about Israel spouting how the Jews are not true Israel?

Most groups I've found in my research on anglo-israelism (and I've done some) are deeply anti-semitic.

If you're not an anti-semite, you need to rethink your beliefs -- because they make it far too easy to confuse you for one.

[LostTribe]

>Most groups I've found in my research on anglo-israelism (and I've done some) are deeply anti-semitic.

That kind of logic doesn't pass muster in my class, Mister. (And you could have been in my University class, a few years displaced). You get an "F" for this one, and do better next time or you're out on your ass!

Now grow up, and try harder.

-Dr./Dean/Prof/Eng. LT

[drlevy88]

They were only a tiny group compared to the Millions of Israelites from the Northern Kingdom who had escaped their Assyrian captivity and moved on to appear in history as The Celts.

You get my Irish up with this one.

[Commie Basher]

the biblical matriarch Rachel, wife of Jacob and mother of Joseph

Really?...wow! That's exactly who I thought they were talking about. I didn't realize the site of her tomb is known to us.

I doubt she even existed. TIME magazine ran a cover story on the Biblical Moses several years ago. According to TIME, the majority of Bible scholars believe Moses was a mythical figure, and since Joseph predated Moses, I doubt there ever was a Rachel or Joseph.

However, if you're into holy shrines, I can sell you an oak tree in Greece that was sacred to Zeus ...

[Sarah]

You're actually bringing TIME Magazine!? as a source?

[DBtoo]

There is no way the Muslims can even attempt to claim that as one of their holy sites! Even someone like me, with limited Bible knowledge knows who Rachel was and how important she is to Jewish tradition. I can't believe they want to claim it belongs to them because they say a mosque once sat there?!

[DBtoo]

Time and Newsweek regularly put out articles denying the existence of proof of religions. I don't take them seriously because I think they have somewhat of an agenda. In fact I quit subscribing to them a few years ago because of the contemptuous, condescending attitudes of their writers.

[Turk2]

It was not an insult. It was an observation.

My source:

The Jewish Virtual Library

[h.a. cherev]

Well, do you have the gonads to apply your criticism uniformly across the thread, or are you going to act like a Democrat?

I see that your preferred method of getting people to believe what you have to say is to insult them. Consequently, you and I have nothing to discuss.

[William Terrell]

LostTribe trolls from thread to thread posting propaganda about Anglo-Israelism. Basically, he thinks British/Irish/Scottish/whatever are the true Israel, not the Jews.

He's in very good company with that-- this is a core belief of the Arayan Nation and the KKK.

I think you misunderstand. The core of losttribe's theories is that Jews are part of Israel, but not the only part. Tthere are at least 10 other tribes extant that make up the balance of Israel that are yet to be positively identified. Evidence strongly suggests that the "British/Irish/Scottish" are descendents of those tribes like the modern Jews are the descendents of Judah, or the Southern Kingdom.

The British Israleites, Christian Identity, Arayans believe basically that the Jews are replaced by the above. Actually and ironically, the data available suggest that the members of these fringe organizations are brothers of the Jews.

[William Terrell]

Then why do you appear on almost every thread about Israel spouting how the Jews are not true Israel?

It appears that he is saying rather that the Jews are a part of Israel but not the only part. Suggest that you search and read his posts on this and other threads and post a reference where he has said Jews are not part of Israel. If you search, though, you'll waste your time. There is no such post.

[monkeyshine]

Muslims say there was once a mosque there.

Meaningless, they build a mosque wherever another religion claims holy... if they can.

This is no brainer based on priority of importance: Jews claim it as the site of a Matriarch of Judaism. Moslems claim it was once one of a million mosques. Verdict: It goes to the Jews.

[Alouette]

This is no brainer

It belongs to the Jews. Sir Moses Montefiore bought the land and built the synagogue which now marks the spot. There is no way the Ottoman Turks who then controlled the land would have allowed him to buy land and build a synagogue if there had been a mosque there. The actual grave of Rachel is thought to be deep underground a short distance away from the synagogue, not directly underneath.

Location of the Grave of Rachel