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Denying 1948: A familiar goal.
NRO ^ | 9/4/2002 | Gabriel Danzig

Posted on 09/04/2002 8:38:56 PM PDT by Utah Girl

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1 posted on 09/04/2002 8:38:56 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Utah Girl
Maybe some Palestinians remember the Stern Gang.
2 posted on 09/04/2002 8:49:18 PM PDT by lakey
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To: lakey
And your point would be?
3 posted on 09/04/2002 9:01:59 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: lakey
I get your point.
4 posted on 09/04/2002 9:07:56 PM PDT by hangin' chad
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To: Utah Girl
That's what I'd like to know.
5 posted on 09/04/2002 9:11:00 PM PDT by stimulate
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To: Utah Girl; hangin' chad
Check out the Stern Gang on Google. They caused more problems than any of the Palestinians.

6 posted on 09/04/2002 9:17:56 PM PDT by lakey
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To: stimulate; Utah Girl
Check these pages:

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi

http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Irgun

Some of the early Israeli nationalist groups didn't think the Haganah was moving fast enough and broke away, they are generally considered by historians to have gone a bit overboard in trying to get a independent Israeli state.

Instead of waiting for world opinion to support them (which it would have anyway), they made a few things go boom.

7 posted on 09/04/2002 9:24:40 PM PDT by Ford Fairlane
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To: lakey
They caused more problems than any of the Palestinians. Really? I thought moral equivalency was a game of the Democrats.
8 posted on 09/04/2002 9:36:43 PM PDT by TopQuark
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To: lakey
I've heard of the Stern gang, I can do more reading up on them. However, did the Stern gang make it consistently their policy to blow up innocent people over decades?
9 posted on 09/04/2002 9:39:47 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Utah Girl
Blow up innocents over decades, no, of course not.

"Deir Yassin Remembered"

"Early on the morning of April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun (headed by Menachem Begin) and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. The village lay outside of the area to be assigned by the United Nations to the Jewish State; it had a peaceful reputation. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Deir Yassin was slated for occupation under Plan Dalet and the mainstream Jewish defense force, the Haganah, authorized the irregular terrorist forces of the Irgun and the Stern Gang to perform the takeover.

"In all over 100 men, women, and children were systematically murdered. Fifty-three orphaned children were literally dumped along the wall of the Old City...."

http://www.dieryassin.org/

Then there's the interesting

http://www.rense.com/general18/fromtheirvRubin.htm

"From the Irv Rubin Bust to the Stern Gang - The Rich History of Jewish Terrorism"

10 posted on 09/04/2002 9:53:57 PM PDT by lakey
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To: lakey
I'm not condoning what the Stern gang did to the village, that was a reprehensible act, but it was an aberration. If Israel and/or its military had gone on to slay innocent Palestinians over the next 50 years, then yes. But the Palestinians are using terror, killing innocent people all the time. They have factories that make the weapons for suicide bombers, they celebrate those people who commit the suicide bombings as martyrs. Sorry, I think you are stretching a lot here.
11 posted on 09/04/2002 10:05:38 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: Utah Girl
You might check out this page too, It is a bit long winded, and I won't testify as to it being 100% accurate, but will provide insight into the feelings at the time (especially british military)

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/7891/Palumbo_chptr1.html

An excerpt:

It is ironic that the news media laments PLO terrorism but fails to mention that it was the Zionists who first used political terrorism in the Middle East. Many of the victims of the Stern Gang and Irgun were innocent civilians, since the terrorists often planted bombs in Arab markets or other crowded areas. But in 1946, their principal target was in fact the British. The government in London, however, feared that the Americans would retaliate against a firm anti-terrorist campaign by holding up a much-needed loan. The British army was not allowed to use the tough tactics required to halt the Irgun and Stern Gang. Execution of captured terrorists was rare, house searches were limited and round-ups unusual.

The British army Chief of Staff, Field Marshal Montgomery, was outraged by the restrictions placed on the army by the politicians in London. While on a fact-finding mission in Palestine he reported, 'the whole business of dealing with illegal armed organizations in Palestine is being tackled in a way which will not produce any good results.'[53] He recommended, 'If we are not prepared to maintain law and order in Palestine it would be better to get out.' There were many in Britain who agreed with him. The British taxpayers were supporting an army of 100,000 men in the troubled mandate territory with no end in sight. The tactics of the Irgun and Stern Gang, designed to bomb the British out of Palestine, brought quick results.

12 posted on 09/04/2002 10:14:45 PM PDT by Ford Fairlane
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To: Utah Girl
I'm not stretching anything. Just because it's posted for all of us to read doesn't mean I agree with killings on either side.
13 posted on 09/04/2002 10:19:24 PM PDT by lakey
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To: lakey
Nor do I. Killing innocent people should not be an option for any cause.
14 posted on 09/04/2002 10:22:30 PM PDT by Utah Girl
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To: lakey
Thank you for at least giving a somewhat accurate number of total Arabs killed in the siege of the arab base at Deir Yassin as opposed to the propgandists calme of 500 murdered.
For the actual facts, please see below:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf14.html#f

The United Nations resolved that Jerusalem would be an international city apart from the Arab and Jewish states demarcated in the partition resolution. The 150,000 Jewish inhabitants were under constant military pressure; the 2,500 Jews living in the Old City were victims of an Arab blockade that lasted five months before they were forced to surrender on May 29, 1948. Prior to the surrender, and throughout the siege on Jerusalem, Jewish convoys tried to reach the city to alleviate the food shortage, which, by April, had become critical.

Meanwhile, the Arab forces, which had engaged in sporadic and unorganized ambushes since December 1947, began to make an organized attempt to cut off the highway linking Tel Aviv with Jerusalem — the city's only supply route. The Arabs controlled several strategic vantage points, which overlooked the highway and enabled them to fire on the convoys trying to reach the beleaguered city with supplies. Deir Yassin was situated on a hill, about 2,600 feet high, which commanded a wide view of the vicinity and was located less than a mile from the suburbs of Jerusalem. The population was 750.32

On April 6, Operation Nachshon was launched to open the road to Jerusalem. The village of Deir Yassin was included on the list of Arab villages to be occupied as part of the operation. The following day Haganah commander David Shaltiel wrote to the leaders of the Lehi and Irgun:

I learn that you plan an attack on Deir Yassin. I wish to point out that the capture of Deir Yassin and its holding are one stage in our general plan. I have no objection to your carrying out the operation provided you are able to hold the village. If you are unable to do so I warn you against blowing up the village which will result in its inhabitants abandoning it and its ruins and deserted houses being occupied by foreign forces....Furthermore, if foreign forces took over, this would upset our general plan for establishing an airfield.33

The Irgun decided to attack Deir Yassin on April 9, while the Haganah was still engaged in the battle for Kastel. This was the first major Irgun attack against the Arabs. Previously, the Irgun and Lehi had concentrated their attacks against the British.

According to Irgun leader Menachem Begin, the assault was carried out by 100 members of that organization; other authors say it was as many as 132 men from both groups. Begin stated that a small open truck fitted with a loudspeaker was driven to the entrance of the village before the attack and broadcast a warning to civilians to evacuate the area, which many did.34 Most writers say the warning was never issued because the truck with the loudspeaker rolled into a ditch before it could broadcast the warning.35 One of the fighters said, the ditch was filled in and the truck continued on to the village. "One of us called out on the loudspeaker in Arabic, telling the inhabitants to put down their weapons and flee. I don't know if they heard, and I know these appeals had no effect."36

Contrary to revisionist histories that the town was filled with peaceful innocents, residents and foreign troops opened fire on the attackers. One fighter described his experience:

My unit stormed and passed the first row of houses. I was among the first to enter the village. There were a few other guys with me, each encouraging the other to advance. At the top of the street I saw a man in khaki clothing running ahead. I thought he was one of ours. I ran after him and told him, "advance to that house." Suddenly he turned around, aimed his rifle and shot. He was an Iraqi soldier. I was hit in the foot.37

The battle was ferocious and took several hours. The Irgun suffered 41 casualties, including four dead.

Surprisingly, after the “massacre,” the Irgun escorted a representative of the Red Cross through the town and held a press conference. The New York Times' subsequent description of the battle was essentially the same as Begin's. The Times said more than 200 Arabs were killed, 40 captured and 70 women and children were released. No hint of a massacre appeared in the report.

“Paradoxically, the Jews say about 250 out of 400 village inhabitants [were killed], while Arab survivors say only 110 of 1,000.”38 A study by Bir Zeit University, based on discussions with each family from the village, arrived at a figure of 107 Arab civilians dead and 12 wounded, in addition to 13 "fighters," evidence that the number of dead was smaller than claimed and that the village did have troops based there.39 Other Arab sources have subsequently suggested the number may have been even lower.40

In fact, the attackers left open an escape corridor from the village and more than 200 residents left unharmed. For example, at 9:30 A.M., about five hours after the fighting started, the Lehi evacuated 40 old men, women and children on trucks and took them to a base in Sheikh Bader. Later, the Arabs were taken to East Jerusalem. Seeing the Arabs in the hands of Jews also helped raise the morale of the people of Jerusalem who were despondent from the setbacks in the fighting to that point.41 Another source says 70 women and children were taken away and turned over to the British.42 If the intent was to massacre the inhabitants, no one would have been evacuated.

After the remaining Arabs feigned surrender and then fired on the Jewish troops, some Jews killed Arab soldiers and civilians indiscriminately. None of the sources specify how many women and children were killed (the Times report said it was about half the victims; their original casualty figure came from the Irgun source), but there were some among the casualties.

At least some of the women who were killed became targets because of men who tried to disguise themselves as women. The Irgun commander reported, for example, that the attackers "found men dressed as women and therefore they began to shoot at women who did not hasten to go down to the place designated for gathering the prisoners."43 Another story was told by a member of the Haganah who overheard a group of Arabs from Deir Yassin who said "the Jews found out that Arab warriors had disguised themselves as women. The Jews searched the women too. One of the people being checked realized he had been caught, took out a pistol and shot the Jewish commander. His friends, crazed with anger, shot in all directions and killed the Arabs in the area."44

Contrary to claims from Arab propagandists at the time and some since, no evidence has ever been produced that any women were raped. On the contrary, every villager ever interviewed has denied these allegations. Like many of the claims, this was a deliberate propaganda ploy, but one that backfired. Hazam Nusseibi, who worked for the Palestine Broadcasting Service in 1948, admitted being told by Hussein Khalidi, a Palestinian Arab leader, to fabricate the atrocity claims. Abu Mahmud, a Deir Yassin resident in 1948 told Khalidi "there was no rape," but Khalidi replied, "We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews." Nusseibeh told the BBC 50 years later, "This was our biggest mistake. We did not realize how our people would react. As soon as they heard that women had been raped at Deir Yassin, Palestinians fled in terror."45

The Jewish Agency, upon learning of the attack, immediately expressed its “horror and disgust.” It also sent a letter expressing the Agency's shock and disapproval to Transjordan's King Abdullah.

The Arab Higher Committee hoped exaggerated reports about a “massacre” at Deir Yassin would shock the population of the Arab countries into bringing pressure on their governments to intervene in Palestine. Instead, the immediate impact was to stimulate a new Palestinian exodus.

Just four days after the reports from Deir Yassin were published, an Arab force ambushed a Jewish convoy on the way to Hadassah Hospital, killing 77 Jews, including doctors, nurses, patients, and the director of the hospital. Another 23 people were injured. This massacre attracted little attention and is never mentioned by those who are quick to bring up Deir Yassin. Moreover, despite attacks such as this against the Jewish community in Palestine, in which more than 500 Jews were killed in the first four months after the partition decision alone, Jews did not flee.

The Palestinians knew, despite their rhetoric to the contrary, the Jews were not trying to annihilate them; otherwise, they would not have been allowed to evacuate Tiberias, Haifa or any of the other towns captured by the Jews. Moreover, the Palestinians could find sanctuary in nearby states. The Jews, however, had no place to run had they wanted to. They were willing to fight to the death for their country. It came to that for many, because the Arabs were interested in annihilating the Jews, as Secretary-General of the Arab League Azzam Pasha made clear in an interview with the BBC on the eve of the war (May 15, 1948): “The Arabs intend to conduct a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.”

References to Deir Yassin have remained a staple of anti-Israel propaganda for decades because the incident was unique.

_________________________________________________________---
Please also see
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/deir_yassin.html

http://arabterrorism.tripod.com/FAQ/yassin.html

15 posted on 09/04/2002 10:56:15 PM PDT by rmlew
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To: lakey
Google also turned up this:

"Deir Yassin: History of a Lie"

There is always more than one side to any story...

16 posted on 09/04/2002 11:07:25 PM PDT by CapandBall
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To: rmlew
Thanks for the interesting post.

17 posted on 09/04/2002 11:17:47 PM PDT by lakey
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To: CapandBall
LOL! How well I know there is always more than one side to a story.

One thing I've read (and don't remember from my childhood) is that the Swedish UN-appointed mediator for Palestine, Count Folke Bernadotte, was assassinated - among others - on September 17, 1948.

18 posted on 09/04/2002 11:23:14 PM PDT by lakey
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To: lakey
I'll have to study up on Count Bernadotte.

From what little I read, some are of the opinion that the Palestianian version of what happened at Deir Yassin did more harm to the Palestianian cause than good.

I like to blame the British for the whole Israel/Palestine mess. In the same way and for the same reason as the India/Pakistan mess.

19 posted on 09/04/2002 11:35:09 PM PDT by CapandBall
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To: CapandBall
Ah, yes, the British.
20 posted on 09/04/2002 11:45:29 PM PDT by lakey
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