Caption these Islamic women shopping for swimsuits

Yahoo!News ^ | 8.16.02

[mhking]

Two Turkish women look at Islamic bathing suits in a shop in Istanbul, Turkey, in this Aug. 9, 2002 photo. Islamic bathing suits fit loosely so as not to show off the outlines of women's body and are made of a synthetic material that dries quickly. The overwhelming majority of women at beaches in secular Turkey wear western-style bathing suits. (AP Photo/Osman Orsal)

[Sci Fi Guy]

Maybe a_Turk can find some better pictures of Turkish ladies

We can hope. I was stationed in Turkey, and believe me, they have plenty of beautiful women.

[condolinda]

One last thing. We in the west are supposed to respect their hyper-modesty in their choice of swimwear. Fine by me. I just hope this courtesy cuts both ways. I hope they respect and honor MY choice of swimwear, whatever it is, because it's MY culture.
Modesty is an interesting subject. Your statement seems to imply that it is only a "value judgment" and completely relative. How do you feel about magazine pictures which feature women with their legs sprawled wide open?

You are missing the point of this discussion. It is totally irrelevant how I feel about pornography. We are talking about swimwear, and what is considered acceptable to wear to the beach or pool, in one culture versus another.

No matter how much we kid around on this thread, the bottom line is this: a Muslim woman would be allowed to wear her head to toe bathing suit to a beach or pool anywhere in the West, AND people would defend her right to wear it. A Western woman would NOT be allowed to wear an ordinary, perfectly acceptable, unpornographic Western-style bathing suit at many, if not most, beaches and pools in Muslim countries.

There was an incident a few months ago where young girls in Saudi Arabia were forced back into a burning building because their heads were not covered. They died. My life as a woman is worth more than a bathing suit or a head scarf

[snippy_about_it]

[a_Turk]

My life as a woman is worth more than a bathing suit or a head scarf

True.

You're talking about the plight of women in exclusively male dominated societies. Such societies, in order to improve, at least from the standpoint of the maximization of their human resource potential, require the application of certain education, both for their men and women, but most of all their women. You'll never be able to go there to teach them a thing, but you can let them migrate to the US and take about 50 years to teach them. That will be the only way.

On the issue of showing skin.. Most middle eastern men are extremely jealous of their women. They would be very disturbed if another man were to look at their woman's arms, legs, let alone their tummy, or buttocks. These men also know their own weaknesses, and some way or another will label you a temptress if you were to appear over there with a bikini.

Turkey is a completely different picture. It's a lot like the US with regard to dress freedoms, but we won't let veiled women attend school nor work in the government.

[xJones]

Well, your thread certainly got hijacked. I just want you to know that I am thinking about you.

[Mortimer Snavely]

The simple piety you find appealing is a cause of shame to most Turks. Contemporary Turkish political ideology and social dynamics are 180 degrees opposed to women wearing potato sacks and being treated like pets of especial value. The mostly Muslim Turks have been fighting these Islamist nutballs for nigh on eighty years now, and not enough disparaging remarks can be made about a totalitarian, rigid, self-referencing delusional system which requires the total control of every thought, word, and deed of everyone on the planet.

Hang out at a Turkish beach resort for a while, and then tell me if you'd prefer a return to those cultural dynamics for which you seem to have some sympathy.

[Mortimer Snavely]

"Turkey is a completely different picture. It's a lot like the US with regard to dress freedoms, but we won't let veiled women attend school nor work in the government."

Damned right.

[VOA]

Two Turkish women look at Islamic bathing suits in a shop in Istanbul, Turkey...

As much as I might have a mild chuckle at the photo, it should be borne in mind that
Turkey is making the best good-will effort at being a modern country while holding
on to what virtues can be found in Islam that might be said to be in harmony with
Christianity and Judaism.

Although I've "strayed off the reservation" a bit, I should mention that when I attended
a camp for kids that were members of mainstream Churches of Christ about 20 years ago...
the males and females had separate times in which to use the swimming pool.

Americans might laugh at this somewhat excessive attempt at virtue...but I suspect
there would be a fair number of Christians here in the USA who might think
that this Muslim approach to female swimwear might be on the right track.

Especially after watching what passes for the average female attire on something like
MTV or in some teen magazine.

[MissouriForBush]

Please refer to my post number 48 in regard to dubious virtue.

[independentmind]

Hang out at a Turkish beach resort for a while, and then tell me if you'd prefer a return to those cultural dynamics for which you seem to have some sympathy.

I have very little sympathy for Islamic culture, as I stated in an earlier post on this thread. Perhaps you should consider whether simple piety is to be condemned. Or is it just too quaint an idea?

[MissouriForBush]

I don't think most of us see anything wrong with simple piety. However, just remember that looks can deceive. (Please see my post number 48.)

[f.Christian]

Girls of Islambad by playboy and you're thinking of doing the spread?

[independentmind]

I don't doubt your description of Islamic women in Germany at all. I'm sure that the same can be said of many women everywhere. What prompted my comment was the particular picture posted on this thread. The two women look to me to be innocently enjoying the prospect of buying new clothing for a trip to the beach. Compare and contrast them to the American women who check out what their butts look like hanging out of the back of a thong bikini.Are you sure you want to defend that choice?

[IronJack]

[giggle giggle]

"Oh, Ramallah! If I bought THAT one, I'd have to ... you know ... shave my ... ankles!"

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

Islamic look at the West as the Great Satan. They point to the extremely revealing clothing of our women and point to our moral decay. Granted, they enforce their morality at the end of the gun, however we in the West look at modesty as though it were a great evil or something to be ridiculed. Too bad that modesty has become something to ridicule.

The women in my house (the missus and daughter)don't wear pants in public and my missus does not go in a swimming pool in mixed company. And we sure don't consider ourselves holier than anybody. On the other hand, if folks want to go out in public wearing the funcitonal equivalent of their underwear, I guess they have the freedom to do so.

Frankly, I don't see anything funny about the picture. I guess we just ain't all that sophisticated.

[independentmind]

Frankly, I don't see anything funny about the picture. I guess we just ain't all that sophisticated.

Or maybe you just have some common decency.

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

I guess I should mention that there are a good number of conservative Christian gun-toters that believe their women folk should be covered. Our country would probably be a lot better off if we returned to the more modest fashion of the 19th Century along with the values of earlier times. That's not to say that the sate should enforce what type of clothes one should wear. It is to say that women and their husbands and daddies would do well to make modest choices.

I went out the other day with my children to see Air Force One at the airport. Out runnin' around was a ten year old girl wearing a very revealing swimsuit. I was embarassed for the girl that her mommy and daddy did not have more respect for her than to let her go out in public like that. Oh well, I guess we's just sloughing to Gomorah.

[MissouriForBush]

For God's sake, are all the thong-bikini wearers aiding and abetting murdering terrorists? I think not.

And you wierdly proclaim that "the same can be said of many women everywhere." My point is that the majority of these so-called "innocent" women of cover are actually blood-thirsty, extremist zealots who fully and openly or covertly support the activities of their male tribesmen against the Western, Judeo-Christian parts of the world. Come on over to Germany and see for yourself.

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

Well I just sorta find modesty beautiful. I only want my missus to reveal her body for me (If you know what I mean). A hundred years ago, Teddy Roosevelt would ask a woman wearing a bikini if she were raised in a heathen country. George Washington would probably not wish to socialize with such a woman cause she probably had a reputation.

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

What would you say about modest Christian and Jewish women who seek to cover themselves? Are they a threat to America? In other words is this picture funny bencause these women are modest or because they are Muslim? From what I can tell those are the only options.