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A Few Saudis Defy a Rigid Islam to Debate Their Own Intolerance
New York Times ^ | 7/11/02 | NEIL MacFARQUHAR

Posted on 07/11/2002 7:46:13 PM PDT by kattracks

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1 posted on 07/11/2002 7:46:13 PM PDT by kattracks
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To: kattracks; Trueblackman; mhking; Sabertooth; Teacher317; summer; floriduh voter
The outcry from the more unbending clergy was believed to be particularly fierce because they were already feeling under assault in the fields they dominate, especially education

Sounds like Republicans when the RATS rip and shred vouchers, expecially the NAACP RATS.

2 posted on 07/11/2002 7:59:15 PM PDT by BOBTHENAILER
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To: kattracks
Bttt.
3 posted on 07/11/2002 8:16:50 PM PDT by scratchgolfer
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To: swarthyguy
Fascinating info on "why they hate us."
4 posted on 07/11/2002 8:25:02 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: BOBTHENAILER
Replace Democrats for Republicans in my previous post.
5 posted on 07/11/2002 8:26:38 PM PDT by BOBTHENAILER
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Some articles for later read...

The islamic fundamentalist view of life as a perennial battle

Not Friend or Foe (Great posted comments too.)

Islam and the Theology of Power

ISLAM, ARABS AND ISRAELIS, TO 1988

6 posted on 07/11/2002 8:40:32 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: Shermy
I'm going to gag...I ahva hard time accepting people rich from oil as opressed by anyone. The American Presidents...all of them have been kissing the Saudi King's ring since I was a child. Their petro dollars give them more power than any other nation on earth with out industry or a civilization to speak off. And they are oppressed? They should look at themselves allright...they have no sience to speak off...they treat their women and minorities like crap...Mohamed would be gagging if he saw what they do in his name. Oppressed?...please...spare me
7 posted on 07/11/2002 8:46:39 PM PDT by dinok
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To: dinok
"Mohamed would be gagging if he saw what they do in his name.

Nonsense. He engaged in, and encouraged Islam's spread through warfare and imposition by the scimitar from its very beginnings. The Quran compels sharia through jihad throughout.

8 posted on 07/11/2002 9:01:58 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: kattracks
"Well, of course I hate you because you are Christian"

Fear leads to anger
Anger leads to hate
Hate leads to suffering.
Hmmm...Yoda may be on to something.

9 posted on 07/11/2002 10:54:09 PM PDT by Darheel
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To: kattracks
Saudis abhor the term Wahhabism, feeling it sets them apart and contradicts the notion that Islam is a monolithic faith. But Wahhabi-inspired xenophobia dominates religious discussion in a way not found elsewhere in the Islamic world.

Bookshops in the holy cities of Mecca and Medina, for example, sell a 1,265-page souvenir tome that is a kind of "greatest hits" of fatwas on modern life. It is strewn with rulings on shunning non-Muslims: don't smile at them, don't wish them well on their holidays, don't address them as "friend."

A fatwa from Sheik Muhammad bin Othaimeen, whose funeral last year attracted hundreds of thousands of mourners, tackles whether good Muslims can live in infidel lands. The faithful who must live abroad should "harbor enmity and hatred for the infidels and refrain from taking them as friends," it reads in part.

Saudis in general, and senior princes in particular, reject the notion that this kind of teaching helps spawns terrorists.

"Well, of course I hate you because you are Christian, but that doesn't mean I want to kill you," a professor of Islamic law in Riyadh explains to a visiting reporter.

People who believe in such religious-based xenophobia and justify behavior like this toward others not of their faith are the most rigid and dangerous of bigots and should not be allowed out of their hellhole countries. They are not fit to associate with civilized people.

10 posted on 07/11/2002 11:33:16 PM PDT by Post Toasties
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To: monkeyshine; ipaq2000; Lent; veronica; Sabramerican; beowolf; Nachum; BenF; angelo; ...
ping
11 posted on 07/12/2002 2:36:41 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: kattracks
Revulsion with terrorism and the pathological, fascistic hatred undergirding it continues to build.

I know we freepers have all been deeply distressed by the widespread enabling of terrorism, even in the supposedly civilized West: the disgusting messages of moral equivalence, the craven failures to embrace and defend classically liberal values that are supposedly shared by both conservatives and (non-collectivist) liberals. But the admittedly shameful incompleteness and slowness of the response shouldn't blind us to the fact that the worm is turning. Even a few in the Kingdom of Hate are beginning to notice.

12 posted on 07/12/2002 3:31:08 AM PDT by Stultis
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To: Darheel
Smart you are!
13 posted on 07/12/2002 6:03:58 AM PDT by Valin
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To: kattracks
After scores of Saudi religious scholars and academics issued a manifesto this spring suggesting that Muslims might find common ground with the West, they were subjected to withering rebuke by those who accept the Wahhabi notion that Islam thrives on hostility toward infidels.

News Flash: The infidels have got The Bomb now....

14 posted on 07/12/2002 6:05:36 AM PDT by steve-b
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To: dennisw
But cracks are beginning to appear in this facade of disavowal. A small group of intellectuals, academics, journalists and religious scholars are quietly suggesting that change is needed.

Well, it's a start, even though they need license to speak. This sounds amazing… "license to speak" but, the royal family has started to encourage limited discussion, and that's good.

15 posted on 07/12/2002 6:06:24 AM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: BOBTHENAILER
Interesting article. Thanks for the ping.
16 posted on 07/12/2002 6:19:12 AM PDT by summer
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To: BOBTHENAILER
"Well, of course I hate you because you are Christian, but that doesn't mean I want to kill you," (yet).

When a devout muslim smiles at you, he is thinking of Danny Pearl.

17 posted on 07/12/2002 8:24:25 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Victoria Delsoul; JohnHuang2
Well, it's a start, even though they need license to speak. This sounds amazing… "license to speak" but, the royal family has started to encourage limited discussion, and that's good.

Not really, it's just driven by the politics of the day. The same kind of "license to speak" was often given, and then taken back in the Soviet Union, China, Cuba etc.

Solzhenitzen was able to publish "A Day In The Life of Ivan Denisovitch" (about the horror of the Gulag) around 1958 under Kruschev. The "license to speak" was soon snatched back. Ditto "Let A 100 Flowers Bloom" period in China in the 50s.

18 posted on 07/12/2002 8:27:54 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
When a devout muslim smiles at you, he is thinking of Danny Pearl.

I really took this article with a bag of salt.

The hardliners in every country better take a close look at what the youth of Iran are doing.

After being the sole true Theocracy in the middle East, after 25 years of oppression, they are ready to throw off the bonds. It may come to a REAL revolution, and soon. Given a taste of real freedom, they will spread this to other countries, if that happens. IMHO

19 posted on 07/12/2002 8:39:05 AM PDT by BOBTHENAILER
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To: BOBTHENAILER
The pendulum may be swinging back to sanity in Iran, but it is still swinging to "Khomeinism" in Saudi Arabia.
20 posted on 07/12/2002 8:49:18 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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