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To: sourcery
How is it that requiring students to listen to their teacher recite a pledge whose words strongly imply belief in a Supreme Being does not clearly constitute an "establishment of religion"?

The congress did not establish any religion, but only acknowleged that God exsits and gave us those inalienable rights that we have today (See Declaration of Independence) So what are our rights given to us by the creator? Look at the US Constitution and the Bill of rights. This is what the founding fathers wanted us to have. Rights, given to us by our creator (a clear acknowledement of God) not men. The Declaration of Independence and the Constiitution was influenced by men that believed in God.

If this establishes a religion, then the declaration of independence and the constitution are both unconstitutional and that our inalienable rights are unconstitutional. Should we then rewrite them?

However,I do agree that the child should not have to listen to other children recite the pledge,but dealing with peer pressure is something we all do all of our life.

32 posted on 06/29/2002 1:34:41 AM PDT by Nightshift
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To: Nightshift
The congress did not establish any religion, but only acknowleged that God exsits and gave us those inalienable rights that we have today (See Declaration of Independence)

The law passed by the California legislature that was invalidated by the Ninth Circuit absolutely and undeniably does have the effect of establishing theistic religion, for two separate reasons: because it requires teachers to recite a pledge that strongly implies belief in a Supreme Being, and because it creates a situation where students must either recite the same pledge along with the teacher, or listen while others do so (a clear and undeniable attempt to establish religious belief by indoctrination).

Imagine a law that required you to always answer the door whenever the Jehovah's Witnesses came calling, and to always listen to them for at least two minutes. If such a law would be Unconstitutional, then (for the same reasons) so is any law requiring anyone to listen to a pledge that strongly implies either the existence or non-existence of a Supreme Being.

So what are our rights given to us by the creator? Look at the US Constitution and the Bill of rights. This is what the founding fathers wanted us to have. Rights, given to us by our creator (a clear acknowledement of God) not men. The Declaration of Independence and the Constiitution was influenced by men that believed in God.

If this establishes a religion, then the declaration of independence and the constitution are both unconstitutional and that our inalienable rights are unconstitutional. Should we then rewrite them?

No one is claiming that the Founders and the Framers were not Christian, or that the decisions they made when writing the Constitution were not motivated by their religious beliefs. Just because a religion has a strong prohibition against ever using the power of the government to promote, endorse, or establish the beliefs or practices of any religion, and just because those who write a Constitution are followers of such a religion, and so include a prohibition in their Constitution against any use of government power in favor of any particular religion, and even cite their Holy Scriptures in the Constitution as the authority for the prohibition, does not make the prohibition, or the Constitution which contains it, Unconstitutional. To make any such unfounded claim reveals a deep and disturbing lack of understanding of the distinction between a Constitution and the government it creates.

The strictures of a Constitution apply to the government it creates, not to the Constitution itself.

35 posted on 06/29/2002 12:58:44 PM PDT by sourcery
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