Teaching Tolerance: Tunisia School Offers a Moderate Exegesis of Islam

The Wall Street Journal ^ | June 17, 2002 | YAROSLAV TROFIMOV

[Torie]

TUNIS, Tunisia -- Youssouf Savane had a clear and common opinion about his faith when he came to study religious law four years ago at Zeitouna, an Islamic university that bills itself as the oldest in the world. Only Islam is the truth, he thought, and all other teachings are false.

[Torie]

Whenever folks make over generalized statements about Islamic countries (and that is a favorite sport around here), I bring up Tunisia. I brought it up on the Michael Medved show when Michael launched into one of his overbroad and unnuanced anti Islamic jihads.

[kezekiel]

Whenever folks make over generalized statements about Islamic countries (and that is a favorite sport around here), I bring up Tunisia. I brought it up on the Michael Medved show when Michael launched into one of his overbroad and unnuanced anti Islamic jihads.

Some facts about Tunisia:

* Islam is the state religion
* Tunisia forbids Christian prosletyzation
* Tunisia has declared the Baha'i faith to be an illegal sect of Islam, and does not permit public worship services
* Islamic religious education is mandatory for schoolchildren
* All publications must be submitted to government censors before distribution

This is a great example? I suppose that, compared to the Taliban and the Saudis, the Tunisians look like Libertarians. In fact, your using them as an example of Islamic tolerance shows just how incredibly intolerant mainstream Islam has become.

[=Intervention=]

Read between the lines. Secularism (i.e. moral relativism) is a greater evil than any sort of Islamic fundamentalism...note the mention of "birth control," which is usually a stand-in term for "abortion." Tunisia is not promoting tolerance, but religious indifference. While that path does not promote radicals immediately, it saps the foundations of a culture that eventually lead it down the paths of hedonism, antipathy, and anarchy. As a case in point, cf. old Rome or modern America.

[Torie]

note the mention of "birth control," which is usually a stand-in term for "abortion

Is that a fact?

[Torie]

Some of what your posted (although not all of it), sounds a bit similar to Israel. In any event, the place isn't a bad place to live, and has a quite high, non oil based standard of living, and a low fertility rate. This is one nation that has a good chance of joining with Turkey in breaking free of the theocratic state bondage that Westerners find so horrific.

[RAT Patrol]

"unnuanced" I am suspicious, based on your frequent and nuanced use of the word "nuance" that you are really a liberal. "Progressives" love that word because it gives them the opportunity to pull a disappearing reality act on cold, hard truths.

[Torie]

I am definitely a liberal on some issues, moderate on others, conservative on still others, and very conservative on a couple. I hope that doesn't upset you too much.

[RAT Patrol]

hmm? Does it upset me? Nope. Life's too short. I do get irritated when I think you're being dishonest about it though. I'll get over that. I mean, this is the internet. Let the consumer beware!

[Torie]

I am not sure I get the dishonesty bit. In fact I have never claimed to be a "conservative." I have claimed to be a neo-conservative, because that is exactly what I am. In any event, I would like to think I make my point of view on issues clear. If not, I need to work on that.

[kezekiel]

Some of what your posted (although not all of it), sounds a bit similar to Israel. In any event, the place isn't a bad place to live, and has a quite high, non oil based standard of living, and a low fertility rate. This is one nation that has a good chance of joining with Turkey in breaking free of the theocratic state bondage that Westerners find so horrific.

"A bit like Israel?" I suggest you do your homework. Obviously, I can't prove the negative other than to point out some facts about religion in Israel:

* non-Jewish groups are free to worship and preach (after all, there are mosques in Israel!)
* Israel has, out of respect for the local Muslims, upheld Islam's forbidding of non-Muslims to enter the Temple Mount
* While there are certain laws that codify respect for the Sabbath, they are hardly more than an inconvenience for non-Jews

Sure, you can't grow or sell pork in Israel. And you have to get married in a religious ceremony. Big frigging deal; it is a uniquely Jewish state--but a very free one, even given that.

[RAT Patrol]

You get an A+ for attitude anyway. :) But, yeah, I've seen you toy with people on a thread or two.

[Cheesehead in Texas]

In any event, the place isn't a bad place to live, and has a quite high, non oil based standard of living, and a low fertility rate. This is one nation that has a good chance of joining with Turkey in breaking free of the theocratic state bondage that Westerners find so horrific.

I'm with you Torie. I worked in Tunisia in 1990 and found it to be one of the world's best kept secrets. It's kind of like going to Santa Fe with an ocean view. The people were friendly, it was easy to get around, prices were reasonable, the food was good, the climate was excellent. I worked in every part of the country except the western desert. Part of the time I lived in Tunis and part of the time in Djerba. The political hot buttons at the time were: preventing the Algerians from exporting their Islamic revolution to Tunisia, when was the PLO leaving, and preventing the Libyans from smuggling electronics into Tunisia. Anything goes for women, from the most recent Paris fashions to completely covered with a head to toe veil. Most of the women wearing a complete veil were either grandmothers or from the country. The Tunisians were usually happy to point out to me that their constitution grants equal rights to women whereas the U.S. failed to ratify the equal rights amendment. Prolonged questioning on the status of women would usually lead to rolled eyes and an exasperated "we're not backwards like Saudi Arabia you know".

It would be a pleasure to see Tunisia succeed on the world stage. It's a country with tremendous potential, both human and natural resources.

[Sonny M]

How would you describe the difference between a conservative to a neo-conservative, to libertarian?

[Burkeman1]

We have seen this before. It was Iran in 1979. Under the Shah- Iran too- was "Western". Alchohol was freely available. The women had "rights" and dressed as they wished. But just as the media in our country doesn't have it's pulse on middle America and largely ignores the large swaths of this land that are Christian and conservative- is it any wonder that we miss what is happening in the hinterlands of Tunisia? I am sure the reporter for this story spent a lot of time in Tourist locales and talked to a lot of "urban" Tunisians. But Islamic fundamentalism of the most intolerant strain is just beneath the surface.

Islam is a culture in decline. Cultures in decline blame others for their decline.

[Torie]

Well at the core, conservatives tend to want smaller government, and have more tolerance of a move towards social darwinism than neo cons. Neocons reject social Darwinsim, are not pro smaller government per se (it is more of a prudential issue as to what government does well, and what it doesn't, and how to make it more effective in carrying out social policy goals perceived as worthy). Neocons are very pro free trade, and in favor of a robust internationalist foreign policy, and are not anti international organizations per se, but rather judge them on their merits. Neocons are more comfortable with a more secular pluralist dynamic society than some conservatives. They are less animus to transfer payments and progressive taxation.

As you can imagine, Neocons have little in common with libertarians, although sometimes their views intersect. That occurs in particular with school vouchers, where it is clear that government schools in poor neighborhoods are dysfunctional.

I hope that helps.