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U.S. Expected to Disengage From World Court Monday
Yahoo news ^ | Fri May 3, 7:02 PM ET | Jonathan Wright

Posted on 05/04/2002 6:05:49 AM PDT by kaylar

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration is expected to announce on Monday it will disengage from the treaty that set up the International Criminal Court, sources in Congress and nongovernmental organizations said on Friday.

The administration of former President Bill Clinton signed the treaty in its last days in office so that it could take part in consultations on details of the court, the first permanent world tribunal to prosecute people for war crimes, genocide and other gross human right violations.

Clinton and his successor, President Bush (news - web sites), fearing the treaty could be used against U.S. military personnel, decided not to submit it to the U.S. Senate for ratification.

Lynne Weil, press secretary for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said the majority Democratic staff on the committee had come to the conclusion that the administration would announce on Monday a decision to "unsign" the treaty.

Undersecretary of State Marc Grossman will speak at Washington's Center for Strategic and International Studies on Monday morning on international justice.

"Grossman's going to speak about ... the importance the U.S. attaches to international standards of justice and the best way to go about achieving them," said a senior State Department official, who asked not to be named.

"Everyone knows our problems with the ICC (International Criminal Court). We don't think it's the best way. We don't think it's an effective mechanism for bringing international justice and it needlessly complicates lots of issues involved with maintaining international security," he added.

BIDEN, DODD TO BE BRIEFED

Another clue to the administration's intentions is that the State Department has invited Democratic Senators Joseph Biden and Christopher Dodd to a briefing on the subject, the nongovernmental organizations said.

Biden is chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Dodd, a committee member, is one of the senators most sympathetic to U.S. cooperation with the ICC.

"There is a real possibility that they may announce they are unsigning the Rome Treaty on Monday," said Liz Vladeck of the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights.

"In that speech Grossman may indeed say something like the U.S. does not consider itself bound by President Clinton (news - web sites)'s signature on the Rome treaty," added another NGO source who has followed the ICC debate closely.

The ICC became a reality on April 11 when the number of countries ratifying the Rome Treaty crossed the 60 mark. It is expected to go into operation next year in The Hague (news - web sites), Netherlands.

Pierre-Richard Prosper, the U.S. ambassador-at-large for war crimes, told reporters at the time that no decision had yet been made on the U.S. attitude toward the court.

He said Washington would "remain divorced from the structure" but did not rule out all cooperation with the court. He left open the possibility of a U.S. veto if U.N. Security Council members try to refer a case to the court.

One NGO source, who asked not to be named, said: "What I understand is that they will be saying that they don't consider the U.S. bound by Clinton's signature."

This move might allow the administration to cooperate with the court when it thought it was in U.S. interests, the source added.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; bush; clinton; icc; nwo; unlist
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I was so excited when I saw the title, but after carefully reading the article, it doesn't look like anything has been decided, and if Prosper's to be believed, the US is NOT pulling out of ICC.
1 posted on 05/04/2002 6:05:49 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: kaylar
Back around 04/11, GWB was hinting he'd "unsign" the ICC treaty. Just a few days later, it was announced in the pages of the Financial Times that certain EU officials and politicians had warned Bush not to antagonize them over the EU, or interfere with its operations. And a day or so after that, a news article on the ICC mentioned that a WH spokescreature (believe it was Prosper again) was being "surprisingly conciliatory" over US cooperation with the ICC. I read those articles here at FR last month, though the FT story may have been reprinted on the National Review site and posted from there.
2 posted on 05/04/2002 6:10:23 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: kaylar
said: "What I understand is that they will be saying that they don't consider the U.S. bound by Clinton's signature."

Hey, one of them gets it!

3 posted on 05/04/2002 6:17:41 AM PDT by StriperSniper
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To: StriperSniper
I have my fingers crossed he'll unsign,but unsigning's not enough : It has to be understood that as the US Constitution is the supreme law over US citizens, any attempt at hauling one of us before the ICC will be considered an assault on our national sovereignty and will be retaliated against with every means at our disposal,including military.
4 posted on 05/04/2002 6:20:29 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: kaylar
No, it's excellent news and timing.
5 posted on 05/04/2002 6:20:44 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: kaylar
will be retaliated against with every means at our disposal,including military.

Amen!

6 posted on 05/04/2002 6:25:35 AM PDT by StriperSniper
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To: kaylar
I believe that President Bush WILL get us out of Clinton's treaty, one way or another. I further believe that he's going to do it while ruffling as few diplomatic feathers as possible.

Blind faith on my part?

No. War on Terror. Prisoners at Gitmo. Other examples.

7 posted on 05/04/2002 6:31:10 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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To: anniegetyourgun
If he unsigns, it's excellent news, yes. But the article doesn't say he will; it's merely 4 people, 2 unnamed, speculating as to whether he will or not. I hope that's a 'signal of intent', but we'll have to wait and see.
8 posted on 05/04/2002 6:31:37 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: Miss Marple;Howlin;Grampa Dave
Stealth strikes again!
9 posted on 05/04/2002 6:33:15 AM PDT by Dog
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To: kaylar
and nongovernmental organizations said on Friday.

Another clue to the administration's intentions is that the State Department has invited Democratic Senators Joseph Biden and Christopher Dodd to a briefing on the subject, the nongovernmental organizations said.

added another NGO source who has followed the ICC debate closely.

One NGO source, who asked not to be named, said

One NGO source who asked not to be named? I don't see a single one of these gutless Friends of Tyranny named except for:

Lawyers Committee for Human Rights.

which is enough to send chills up my spine.

10 posted on 05/04/2002 6:33:41 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: kaylar
If Bush--or anyone else, is against the ICC, they should be against the "institution" that serves as its model, the ICTY (International Criminal "Tribunal" for the "Former" Yugoslavia)--the kangaroo "court" in the Hague!

Instead, Bush and company continue to insist that Yugoslavia and Republika Srpska "cooperate" more and more with the "court",and that more Serbs surrender to its jurisdiction. They also insist that the "court" have the "right" of complete access to Yugoslavia's classified files. This is nothing but HYPOCRICY, as well as INJUSTICE!!!!

The "father" of both the ICTY and the ICC is Cherif Bassiouni, the Egyptian-"American" law professor who believes that sharia law is "perfect", and who also beleives in "enlightened islamic fundamentalism." So the ICTY and the ICC are not only globalist scams, but also muslim fifth-columnist plots!!!!

muslim extremists are the viruses that infect the body of globalism! They are using globalism as a Trojan horse to help realize their 1400-year-old dream: muslim world conquest!!!!

11 posted on 05/04/2002 6:41:26 AM PDT by Honorary Serb
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To: Honorary Serb
The "father" of both the ICTY and the ICC is Cherif Bassiouni, the Egyptian-"American" law professor who believes that sharia law is "perfect", and who also beleives in "enlightened islamic fundamentalism." So the ICTY and the ICC are not only globalist scams, but also muslim fifth-columnist plots!!!!

I did a google search on Cherif Bassiouni icc to see what I'd find : Any freeper who doubts HS's description should check it out. It';s bone chilling.

And a search under Cherif Bassiouni shariya pulled up this little multipage gem, mainly on Islamic law. Mr . Bassiouni does indeed seem to be a "fan" of Islamic law:

Nothing in Islam prevents a woman from accomplishing herself or attaining her goals. Societies may erect barriers, but nothing in the spirit of the Qur'an subjugates women to men

Very scary stuff.

12 posted on 05/04/2002 6:55:47 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: kaylar
"It has to be understood that as the US Constitution is the supreme law over US citizens..."

And as a Sovereign Nation Americans and America are under no obligation to any treaty of this sort. Isn't it amazing that so many people elected Bill Clinton to dissolve the American Constitution?

Write our President and remind him of his duty to Preserve and Protect the United States Constitution something Bill Clinton rarely if ever, did.

13 posted on 05/04/2002 7:05:51 AM PDT by yoe
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To: kaylar
Considering GWB's positions (wobbles) on some issues, such as illegal immigration, Middle East, etc., I am having difficulty in trusting him to do the right things much any more. GWB seems easily swayed to pressure--Fox in Mexico, Prince from Saudi, etc. I hope he does "unsign" this, but I wonder whether he will.

Some recent FR threads regarding Sharia:

Sharia Declared In Southern Nigeria For First Time
      Posted by swarthyguy
On May 2 10:07 PM with 13 comments


Islam Online ^ | 5/2
LAGOS, May 2 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) - Muslim clerics held a ceremony in the southwestern Nigerian state of Oyo to introduce Sharia (Islamic law) to the south for the first time, news agencies reported Thursday. Nigerian Islamic leaders said Wednesday's ceremony only concerned Oyo State and that the Islamic legal code would only apply to civil matters such as divorce, inheritance and land disputes, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP). "The ceremony was to encourage Muslims on their own to privately implement Sharia," Lateef Adegbite, Secretary General of Nigeria's Supreme Islamic Council, told AFP. Secretary General of Nigeria's Supreme Council for...
     
 
Afghanistan to apply sharia law with discretion
      Posted by CommiesOut
On Dec 15 1990 1:41 PM with 62 comments


smh.com.au ^ | Friday December 28, 2001 | smh.com.au
Afghanistan to apply sharia law with discretion: minister KABUL, Dec 27 AFP Published: Friday December 28, 2:57 AM Afghanistan's new government will still impose sharia Islamic law on its people but will act less harshly than the deposed Taliban regime, Justice Minister Abdul Rahim Karimi said today. The fundamentalist Taliban's five-year rule which ended this month was marked by public amputations for thieves as well as executions and corporal punishment for other crimes. "Our Islam is different," Karimi told AFP. "How can you cut off the hand of a man who has nothing to eat? We must first feed the ...
     
 
New Afghanistan regime to apply sharia law
      Posted by H.R. Gross
On Dec 27 2001 11:15 PM with 17 comments


Jang International News (Pakistan) ^ | 12/27/01
New Afghanistan to apply sharia law (Updated at 1830 PST) KABUL: Afghanistan's new government will still impose sharia Islamic law on its people but will act less harshly than the deposed Taliban regime, Justice Minister Abdul Rahim Karimi said Thursday. "Our Islam is different," Karimi told a news agency. "How can you cut off the hand of a man who has nothing to eat? We must first feed the people and give them a livelihood."
     
 
Taliban Wants Bush Tried in Sharia Court
      Posted by classygreeneyedblonde
On Nov 17 2001 1:14 AM with 32 comments


newsmax ^ | 11-14-01 | Jennifer Bryson
In a interview by phone Tuesday from Kandahar with Al-Jazeera, the official spokesman for Mullah Muhammad Omar, Muhammad Tayyib Agha, insisted that Kandahar was still in the hands of the Taliban, Osama bin Laden and Omar were still in Afghanistan, and the Taliban intended to bring President Bush before a court of Islamic law. When the news anchor asked if Kandahar had fallen into the hands of the opposition, Agha said: "That is not correct; it is false news. We are here in Kandahar. The situation here is stable. Life here is normal, and there is no danger for the ...
     
 
Sharia riots kill 11 in Nigeria's Kaduna state
      Posted by Alouette
On Nov 5 2001 7:11 PM with 1 comment


Reuters ^ | Nov. 5, 2001 | Reuters
LAGOS (Reuters) - At least 11 people have been killed and scores injured in renewed religious violence in the northern Nigerian state of Kaduna, triggered by its implementation of Islamic sharia law, police said on Monday. "We have received reports from the divisional police officer in the area that 11 people were killed and several others wounded in the fighting," Deputy Commissioner of Police Edgar Nanakumo told Reuters by telephone from Kaduna. Police said rival militia used home made guns, machetes, and bows and arrows in the clashes which erupted in the state's largely Christian southern district of Sanga ...
     
 
Afghanistan: Taliban Radio 'Voice of Sharia' Delenda Est
      Posted by Ironword
On Oct 11 2001 5:04 AM with 65 comments


BBC Monitoring | October 10, 2001 | staff
** AFGHANISTAN. Taleban radio update - 10 October 2001 BBC Monitoring Kabul radio The Taleban radio station, Radio Voice of Shari'ah from Kabul, remains unheard by BBC Monitoring since 1610 gmt on Monday 8 October. At that time, the domestic service on mediumwave 657 kHz was broadcasting a speech by a pro-Taleban cleric condemning US attacks against Afghanistan. The speech was in progress when reception was lost. Radio Voice of Shari'ah from Kabul, which is usually on the air from 0130-0400 and 1230-1800 gmt, has remained unheard on any of its three frequencies - 657 kHz and 1107 kHz mediumwave ...
     
 
Drama As Sharia Convict Dares Judge With Whisky Sachet: 'Cane Me Again'
      Posted by dighton
On Mar 11 2001 6:01 PM with 18 comments


Vanguard Daily (Lagos) ^ | 03/10/2001
A middle-aged man, convicted and given 80 strokes of the cane for drunkenness in Katsina State, stunned the judge and spectators when he brought out a sachet of whisky, from his pocket and told the judge to order that he be caned again as he would continue to drink.The man, Mallam Ummanu Bubeh, who is a teacher by profession, was arrested by Sharia agents who found him drunk on the street of Katsina while staggering home from the army barracks mammy market, where he had gone for drinking.After his conviction by the Sharia court in the city, Mallam Bubeh was ...
     
 
Sharia Court could strip poet of wife, wealth over alleged blasphemy
      Posted by Thinkin' Gal
On Jun 18 2000 4:16 PM


Jordan Times ^ | 18 June 2000 | By Dima Hamdan
Sharia Court could strip poet of wife, wealth over alleged blasphemy By Dima Hamdan AMMAN — The three-month pending case of Jordanian poet Musa Hawamdeh, swiftly picked up steam last week when he was suddenly summoned to the Sharia Court for questioning in connection with allegations of apostasy. The allegations were levelled against Hawamdeh by the head of court clerks who, according to a written complaint, alleged that Hawamdeh has denied Koranic facts and defamed one of the prophets in his book “My Tree is Higher.” Hawamdeh's lawyer, Nasser Alawneh, told the Jordan Times that the Sharia judge referred the ...
     
 
Fatwa issued against Putin by the Sharia Court of Britain - Calls for Death Penalty
      Posted by AM2000
On Apr 18 2000 4:28 AM with 15 comments


Islamic Views ^ | MON APR 17 2000 01:04 P.M. G.M.T.
Islamic organisation calls for death penalty for Putin LONDON, April 17 (AFP) - British Islamic organisation Al-Muhajiroun called Monday for Muslims everywhere to carry out the "death penalty" against Russian President-elect Vladimir Putin for his country's actions in Chechnya. The call came as Putin made his debut on the international stage, meeting British Prime Minister Tony Blair here. "Putin, as head of the barbaric Russian regime, remains a legitimate target, because of his country's military crackdown on the mainly-Muslim separatist Caucasus republic, Al-Muhajiroun said in a statement issued here. The organisation said a fatwa (religious edict) had been issued ...

14 posted on 05/04/2002 7:20:58 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: TomGuy
Have you seen this thread?
15 posted on 05/04/2002 7:30:44 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: kaylar
well, i dont think it would surprise me too much if we 'unsigned' the treaty

the first stupid ICC trial on an american sovereign citizen would stir up enough angry people to quit the ICC and possibly the UN too..
cant have that.. our collective dreams of global government would be for naught
16 posted on 05/04/2002 7:39:20 AM PDT by wafflehouse
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To: kaylar

17 posted on 05/04/2002 7:41:50 AM PDT by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: kaylar

18 posted on 05/04/2002 7:43:26 AM PDT by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: kaylar;Itsalmosttolate;freedomnews;brat;"NWO";UN_List;Bang_List;RippleFire;amom;alamo-girl...

19 posted on 05/04/2002 7:47:55 AM PDT by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
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To: Honorary Serb
"ENLIGHTENED ISLAMIC FUNDIMENTALISM" is an OXYMORON!!!
20 posted on 05/04/2002 7:48:58 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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