Montana Minister visits Kosovo says Media (and Clinton)lie - Interview from 1998

Center for Peace in the Balkans ^ | Nov. 23, 1998 | Bill Dorich

[ABrit]

Well you're definately wrong about the two years......hopefully it'll be for the rest of his un-natural life.

[ABrit]

President: Claude Jorda (France)

Vice-President: Mohamed Shahabuddeen (Guyana)

Presiding Judges:

Richard George May (United Kingdom)

Wolfgang Schomburg (Germany)

Liu Daqun (China)

Judges:

Florence Ndepele Mwachande Mumba (Zambia)

David Anthony Hunt (Australia)

Patrick Lipton Robinson (Jamaica)

Mehmet Güney (Turkey)

Asoka de Zoysa Gunawardana (Sri Lanka)

Fausto Pocar (Italy)

Theodor Meron (United States of America)

Amin El Mahdi (Egypt)

Carmel A.Agius (Malta)

Alphonsus Martinus Maria Orie (Netherlands)

O-gon Kwon (Korea)

Ad Litem Judges:

Amarjeet Singh (Singapore)

Maureen Harding Clark (Ireland)

Ivana Janu (Czech Republic)

Chikako Taya (Japan)

Fatoumata Diarra (Mali)

Sharon A. Williams (Canada)

Rafael Nieto-Navia (Colombia)

 

So Judges from 23 different countries are all in on the "conspiracy".

There’s a word for people like you........Paranoid

[duckln]

Well you're definately wrong about the two years......hopefully it'll be for the rest of his un-natural life.

Does it bother you that the trial of Milosevic, billed as the biggest of this century, was 'muffled' after only 2 days of witnesses? All were exposed by Milosevic including your Paddy.

Now the 'kangaroo' court enginneered a 'trial suspention' in order to refabricate a 'case'. They didn't make a dent in Milosevic with 14 political 'witnesses', so I wonder what they're up to now. We'll find out Monday, but we'll have to monitor the 'kangaroo trial' on the Net partly during the 'night', as it isn't being factually commented on by the 'media',and the 'transcripts' are being short circuited to the 'archive' bin.

This 'kangaroo trial', sadly enginneered by the Brits, bothers us here on FR.

[duckln]

So Judges from 23 different countries are all in on the "conspiracy". There’s a word for people like you........Paranoid

How many Serbians are on your list? None! Hardly a case of being judged by your peers.

What is their juristiction, does it include Englands' Blair?

Some of the 23 'judges may not be on the conspiracy, but like the pay. Guess we'll have to see how the 'judge' from the cicoms votes, but it won't matter as the 'fix' is in with a Brit and Hun in the majority. Some justice!

[Kate22]

Abrit: You really make yourself appear shamefully bigoted with your extremely anti-Serbian stance. Have you ever been to Serbia? Have you ever met anyone from that region? Do you know how many nationalities live there? Do you know anything about the Balkans? Obviously not, otherwise you wouldn't refer to 'Kosovars' and 'the killings of Muslims in Kosovo'.

Wherever you are from, if you change the words of your comments from 'Serbs' to 'Jews', 'blacks', 'women', 'Britishpeople' or whatever group, there would (rightly) be outrage if you said that to murder innocents was 'justified'. Both JMS and I have asked you why this is different to saying that it is 'fair retribution' for white British people to be killed by black Africans. You haven't answered that.

To say that it is alright to kill one race or nationality is repugnant and nobody here on these threads (including Serbian Freepers) says that it is right for any innocent civilian to be killed. The KLA are internationally-recognised terrorists and [proper] international law states quite clearly that a person cannot be a combatant and a civilian.

You cannot post endless reams of tabloid and mainstream articles which are contributing in no way to any sort of discussion. If you want to answer specific questions or discuss specific points, that's one thing. But to post as 'responses' 5 full text articles in a row is not what people do here (even if they disagree hotly with each other). They post extracts and links unless the stories are short, or they start new threads.

What is your problem with Serbian people exactly? Does it extend to Croatians, Macedonians or Bosnian Serbs?

You have done something very provocative by calling yourself 'A'Brit' and then accusing anyone against the Nato bombing of being a holocaust denier and spouting hate against the Serbian nation (or any nation). I don't know a single 'Brit' who thinks that it was still right to attack fellow Europeans. They either (sadly) don't give a damn now, or they thought that it was wrong to begin with. Sounds like you would like to do the whole state terrorism thing again. The Union Jack has been hijacked by enough racists and low lifes without you bringing it on here.

BTW: Amnesty has condemned the killing of Serbian and other people (including many Albanians) by the KLA. They also condemned the bombing by Nato (albeit too quietly).

[Leonora]

You posed good questions to ABrit regarding his hate of Serbs. If he was truly A "Brit" he would probably think that the whole region was a mess and hopless with Serbs to be blamed for most of it (as the mainstream press taught him). But he would not be so rabidly anti-Serbian and pro-Alabanian.

I am convinced he is an Albanian or related to Albanians (hey, he might be a heroin dealer for the Albanian mafia, so natuarlly he is concerned for his "business partners" in Kosovo)

[Kate22]

"If he was truly A "Brit" he would probably think that the whole region was a mess and hopless with Serbs to be blamed for most of it (as the mainstream press taught him). But he would not be so rabidly anti-Serbian and pro-Alabanian."

Exactly!

[ABrit]

Reply to your post 147

You said of me:

"To say that it is alright to kill one race or nationality is repugnant".

I said post number 137:

By the way, I am not in favour of retribution, but human nature being what it is, there was bound to be a lot in these circumstances.

A bit like feelings of retribution from the USA, after 9/11.

Can you imagine the stiuation if 250 million US citizens were forced out of their country by intimidation and atrocity. That is the scale.

Would there be retribution?

You bet your bottom dollar there would.

Kate why don’t you read what I actually say, instead of what you imagine?

You ask, "What is your problem with Serbian people exactly?"

My problem with the Serbs is that they were responsible for the mass expulsion of one million Albanian Muslims from their homes in Kosovo, and also mass torture, widespread murder, and rape, according to OSCE, Amnesty International, every reputable news source, every Western democratic government. A number of Serbs have already been found guilty of those crimes by the tribunal, which is comprised of judges from 23 different countries.

You say: I don't know a single 'Brit' who thinks that it was still right to attack fellow Europeans

Your memory lets you down. The front page of the Daily Mirror on the day before the British troops were to cross into Kosovo, had a full colour picture of a Ghurka, with the caption, "Its up to you Slobbo", and text pointing out how many Victoria Crosses had been awarded to the Ghurkas, and the fact that once the Ghurkas had drawn their Khukris, they could not sheath them until blood had been drawn.

There was in fact, contrary to what you say, widespread public support for military action against the Serbs.

My other problem with the Serbs is that they are repeat offenders. They used military force against the Slavonians, the Croats, and the Bosnians, and the threat of force agaist the Montenegrins, according to all the sources I site above. Serbs have also been tried and found guilty of war crimes against the people of those countries.

Both JMS and I have asked you why this is different to saying that it is 'fair retribution' for white British people to be killed by black Africans. You haven't answered that.

I have met an ex sergeant major in the Rhodesian Light Infantry who described to me in detail, how many black terrorist/resistance fighters he and his unit killed.

While I have never said that it is "fair" for anyone to kill anyone else, I would say exactly the same about the black africans, I would understand how they would feel the need for retribution, and how they could hate whites.

You say I accuse anyone against the Nato bombing of being a holocaust denier,... and I do

and spouting hate against the Serbian nation (or any nation).

Where exactly have I spouted hate against the Serbs, or any nation?

I dont hate the Serbs, but I do hate what a lot of them have done, and I do hate people who are party to the crime, those who deny or ignore it.

You say: BTW: Amnesty has condemned the killing of Serbian and other people (including many Albanians) by the KLA. They also condemned the bombing by Nato (albeit too quietly).

Amnesty called for investigation of allegations of war crimes by NATO, those allegations were rejected by the War Crimes Tribunal. It is not a war crime to accidentally kill civilians, it has to be deliberate. As to the television broadcasting tower, I would guess that this was being used for military communications by the Serbs, and I would guess the Serbs had been forwarned of an attack by NATO.

And by the way, yes, I have been to Yugoslavia.

[vooch]

The reason lots of Serbs decided to go to Serbia is clear. They knew what was coming to them. It’s called retribution. And who could blame the Kosovo Muslims.

so you support the murder of civilians ?

BTW.....it has already been established that the KVM & OSCE reports were falsified by higher ups. No sense in posting any of their reports.

Also please note, If the HumWarriors version of the Kosovo and Metohija story was correct (ie genocidal Serb Government vs. civilian population) then the civilian murder rate should have dropped once the Government was replaced by Kfor.......instead the civilian murder rate has gone up between 2-5 times since Kfor took over.

For example.....In 1998, about 110 civilians were killed in KosMet
compared with In 2000, more than 246 civilians were murdered

Since Kfor & the KLA took responsibility for the safety and security of the people at least 1,100 civilains have been killed and 1,300 'disappeared' presumbed dead.

Abrit, this little thread started with a Conservative Montana Minister going to Kosovo and reporting back that the Media was telling lies.......Your first response was to tell us that Yugoslavia was a member of the communist military bloc and therefore that somehow justified bombing.......When that contention was throughly discredited, you then moved on to posting the same-old-worn-out-luird-tales-designed to foster race hatred which have ALSO been long since discredited...........

Instead of parroting the tired old mythology of Clinton's War......why don't you tell us just how much better life is in Kosovo now that Blair and Clinton have left their mark there ? The HumWarriors have been in Kosovo for niegh on 3 years now.....certainly it is reasonable to expect a comparaison.......

[Kate22]

You quote The Daily Mirror?? How sad. You also do not distinguish between Serbian people and military or criminals and yet you say that you've been to Yugoslavia? Which region did you visit exactly, out of interest?

"You say I accuse anyone against the Nato bombing of being a holocaust denier,... and I do."

That is such a repugnant thing to say. Do you understand the role played by the Serbian people during WWII and how many Jewish people were sheltered by them?
Not to mention the fact that plenty of extremely good people were against the bombing.

[Kate22]

By the way, I don't think that you can aliken Albanian 'retribution' murders of poor Serbian farmers and old people to the reaction to September 11th by Americans - people aren't going to fall for that.

As for your example about the attitude of fellow 'British' people (oo-kay) we can all find many who supported the bombing during the bombing (as in your chosen headline, and I suspect, reading matter). I'm speaking about afterwards. Kosovo is a mess - the whole region is a mess. The bombing was a disaster and killed thousands in the process.

[Kate22]

Very well put. It would be interesting to see whether this scholar of the Balkans 'visited Yugoslavia' while dropping in on relatives or pre 1990 while reading The Daily Mirror in Dubrovnik and comparing knuckle tattoos with his mates.

[ABrit]

BTW.....it has already been established that the KVM & OSCE reports were falsified by higher ups. No sense in posting any of their reports.... By which authoritative source have they been discredited

If the HumWarriors version of the Kosovo and Metohija story was correct (ie genocidal Serb Government vs. civilian population) ......800,000 people fled, 200,000 more internally displaced..

Your first response was to tell us that Yugoslavia was a member of the communist military bloc .......When that contention was throughly discredited......Yugoslavia was communist, Milosevic was a lifelong communist.

why don't you tell us just how much better life is in Kosovo.......well most of the 800,000 went back to Kosovo and stayed. The proof of the pudding...

[Kate22]

Okay, one last try -
Facts:
- Milosevic is not a Communist (that's basic knowledge, although his wife, arguably is);
- the flood of refugees started after the bombing began (as confirmed by the British Defence Select Committe report which also confirmed that the Nato attack was illegal);
- Kosovo is part of Serbia therefore it is impossible for 'Serbs to flee to Serbia from Kosovo';
- around 80,000 - 100,000 Albanians fled into areas elsewhere in Serbia during the bombing;
- it was (and is) not only 'Kosovo Muslims' (I think you probably mean 'Albanians' - sheesh!) who have suffered or were displaced, which you obviously don't realise.

Oh, and lest we forget for everyone here who was against Clinton and Blair's bombing campaign:

A'Brit': "You say I accuse anyone against the Nato bombing of being a holocaust denier,... and I do."

That was such a ridiculously offensive and ignorant thing to say that it's quite astounding.

You didn't say whereabouts in Yugoslavia you had 'visited' and how you managed to avoid meeting any Serbs when you were there.

[Kate22]

Well said and well put. Trying to debate the facts with this person is like slapping yourself round the face with a wet kipper.

[ABrit]

Slobodan Milosevic's Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS), formerly League of Communists of Serbia (SKS), is the only Communist party in Eastern Europe to have survived in power since the fall of the Berlin Wall on 10 November 1989. More

Milosevic joined the party while still in highschool (1959), and later enrolled in law school in Belgrade. Some of his erstwhile colleagues who later became dissidents remember Milosevic as an excellent party organizer (he was later called "our little Lenin" by his comrades). He was soon recognized as such, becoming the head of the student party organization at the Faculty of Law in Belgrade, and later (1963-65), the ideological secretary of the University Committee of Belgrade. Subsequently, Milosevic worked in managerial positions and as a president of one of the large Belgrade banks.More

Political Career:Named leader of Belgrade Communist Party, 1984; Named leader of Serbian Communist Party, 1987; Elected president of Serbian republic, 1989; Inaugurated president of Yugoslavia, 1997. More

A bureaucrat who might have remained peacefully behind a desk, he rode the coat tails of Peter Stambolic, another Communist official whose family was extremely well-connected within Yugoslavia, from Director of the State-run gas monopoly to President of the Bank of Belgrade to the leadership of the Belgrade and finally the Serbian Communist parties.More

Kate, why don't you check your facts?

Don't you realise that if you are wrong about something as basic as this, then your whole understanding of what happened is called into question?