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Poster-boy losers: David Hackworth whacks military's inexperienced 'Perfumed Princes'
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Wednesday, March 27, 2002 | Col. David Hackworth

Posted on 03/27/2002 7:05:44 PM PST by JohnHuang2

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To: agincourt1415
Please don't use Vicksburg as an example, it was a seige of overwhelming superior land and naval forces at the disposal of someone who could apply basic principles of warefare.

Grant's activities before the siege set in were definitely of a very high order of skill and success. He won five battles in 17 days: Port Gibson (May 1st), Raymond (May 12th), capture of Jackson, Mississippi (May 14th), Champion's Hill (May 16th), and Big Black River Bridge (May 17th).

In all these battles he applied maneuver warfare techniques to confuse and defeat his opponents. His force was numerically inferior to the aggregate force of CSA troops in the area. He defeated them by turns. Even crossing the Misssissippi river demonstrated a maneuver warfare technique and a willingness to take a calculated risk (are you hearing this Monty?).

There was a time during the Overland campaign where Grant's skill stole a march on Lee and would have allowed him to get into Petersburg virtually unopposed, but his subordinate leaders flubbed it.

Walt

101 posted on 03/29/2002 11:04:31 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: Rokke
"...the era of bayonet charges is over."

...until you need to make one.

102 posted on 03/29/2002 12:05:06 PM PST by onedoug
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To: All
Hey I give up - Grant is a military genius, last time I waste typing replies to Yankee Freepers LOL, as I play "Bonnie Blue Flag" on CD.
103 posted on 03/29/2002 12:52:36 PM PST by agincourt1415
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To: Rokke
Well, I'm not an infantry soldier, but in my line of work if you close with an aware enemy to engage in "hand-to-hand" combat, you've screwed up

Spoken like a true air-force or navy techno-puke. Unless you have been and done, in real combat, not the video-game crap that you seem to love, keep your opinions to yourself. Your reliance on weapons that provide distance as a measure of protection are usurped by the need for "eyes on" intelligence gathering and assessment. But wait, there is technology for that too sin't there??? Get real bucko... I can't wait to see you in any form of combat, you will be easy to find, what with the big stain on your trousers...

Semper Fi

104 posted on 03/29/2002 1:12:06 PM PST by Trident/Delta
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To: Trident/Delta; Rokke
Since we were writing about the Civil War, I thought I would give you a statistic about bayonets. During the spring campaign of 1864, out of 50,000 men, only about 50 were victims to bayonet thrusts.

I'll agree with Rokke. If you're forced to close with the enemy or the enemy is in your lines, you've screwed up. Never bring a knife, no matter how long, to a gunfight.

105 posted on 03/29/2002 4:24:09 PM PST by Shooter 2.5
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To: Trident/Delta
Hey, that's a classy retort. I'll tell you what, next time your on the frontlines, why don't you fix bayonets and give a good charge for ole' times sake. No point in using the technology we've developed since the Civil War. Lets just arm our troops with sabers and muskets. In the meantime, you can leave the killing to the techno-pukes who aren't mired in the glory of tradition. And for the record, I'd be willing to bet I've been in combat more recently than you, and will return to it a lot sooner than you. I look forward to sending a few arabs to meet their 52 virgins in your honor. And I'll do it without sacrificing a bunch of good, young American troops to antiquited, obsolete tactics.
106 posted on 03/29/2002 4:29:02 PM PST by Rokke
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To: Rokke
Hand-to-hand combat is not as rare as one would think, there were reports from Afghanistan that special forces were taking on Al Qaida with knives in some instances. I don't think SF troops are stupid or suicidal, they wouldn't use knives unless they had to.
107 posted on 03/29/2002 4:36:54 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Generally concur with your post but Montgomery was/is the most overrated general of all times. His "Victory" at El Alamein came against a foe whom he outnumbered 2-1 in manpower 4-1 in tanks, 3-1 in planes, and 10-1 in artillery -- and the Axis forces ran out of gas!

--------------------------

In that battle over a 30 mile front Montgomery had 1,000 new tanks to the Germans' 500. That's a new tank every 150 feet along a frontal attack. The Germans were hard up for fuel. Due to Hitler's mistake, the Germans had just had 360,000 gallons of desperately needed fuel sunk on its way to Africa. Furthermore, the lost British tanks were being replenished by American tanks. Replenishment of ten tanks a day would result in massive superiority.

Still, the Germans managed to take out 500 of Mongomery's tanks, which is as much as the Germans had to start with.

With 10,000 more gallons of fuel and 100 more tanks, Mongomery would have been wiped out.

108 posted on 03/29/2002 4:46:14 PM PST by RLK
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To: xm177e2
I think that's a good point, however, I would imagine they weren't closing with an aware enemy to do it, as is implied by a bayonet charge. The whole discussion is a little silly. I used the term "bayonet charge" in my original post as being representative of outdated tactics. I am sure arguements could be made for the use of just about any weapon or tactic. Heck, one of my favorite pictures from Afghanistan is the SF troop riding horseback. But the story behind the picture is that man was where he was to locate targets and guide new technology weapons into those targets. He wasn't riding the horse because he thought mounted cavalry is still an effective way to win battles. Interestingly enough, he also was an Air Force "techno-puke". Go figure.
109 posted on 03/29/2002 5:57:54 PM PST by Rokke
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To: Rokke
You do not win until an average grunt is standing there. No matter what the air force pukes want to believe.
110 posted on 03/29/2002 9:03:11 PM PST by aimlow
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To: aimlow
Say, that's a good point. And if the average grunt starts walking right now, he ought to make it to the combat zone in just a couple years. And when he finally gets there, I'm sure he'll be very glad the Air Force and Navy got there first to pulverize enough of the enemy that the average grunt will only need to mop up the mess. Of course, if the average grunt wants to do it on his own, I guess the other two services would be willing to let him try. But fortunately, today's average grunt, just like today's average sailor and airman, understands that it takes the effort of all the services to win a war.
111 posted on 03/29/2002 9:43:48 PM PST by Rokke
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To: Rokke
The average grunt also understands that air force can give a shi+ about tactical air. The average grunt also understands that the air force is a a group that joined for a job. The average grunt also knows that when asked to describe themselves as either "warrior" or "I fly for the goverment" the air force F-15E strike pilots picked the "I fly for the government. This quote says it best " I will be happy doing my 20 years with out ever killing someone, but I also am extremely glad to be in the middle of 1000 19 year old Marines who can't wait too" Air Force EOD tech Kandahar.
112 posted on 03/31/2002 8:51:16 AM PST by aimlow
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To: aimlow
"The average grunt also understands that air force can give a shi+ about tactical air. "

Maybe you missed all the reports and pictures of the B-1/B-52/F-16/F-15E strikes in Afghanistan? Maybe you've never heard of an AC-130. Maybe you don't know there are currently A-10's flying out of Bagram airfield. Maybe you don't know that the purpose of most of the special forces in Afghanistan during the first several weeks of the war was to coordinate Navy and Air Force airstrikes. Maybe you don't realize that your obvious ignorance puts you in a category several levels below today's average grunt. Then again, maybe you do know that much. If "aimlow" is your goal in life, I think you have acheived it.

113 posted on 03/31/2002 12:24:47 PM PST by Rokke
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To: Rokke
You mean the same air force that tried to get rid of the A-10's. The same air force that spends ungodly sums of money on bombers that do nothing for tactical air? That cost so much that they are named after states? The same air force that got rid of the F-111 electronic warfare platforms even though they are responsible to the CJCS for them. The same air force that calls a C2 tent a weapon in order to justify the cost? The same air force that has to use B-52's as weapon platforms because they have spent so much money on B-2's and B-1's and they are uncapable of influencing the action. The same air force that does not allow Marines to use there clubs but are happy as hell to hide behind one or have one show up to rescue his ass. The same air force that it's pilots were turning around in the middle of mission's during the Gulf that the General had to publish a message reminding them that war means they too could be shot at. The us air force is the best in the world. And staffed by a bunch of wussies that spend more money than can be imagined.
114 posted on 03/31/2002 12:39:13 PM PST by aimlow
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To: aimlow
In Afghanistan, the B-1 has flown just 5% of the strike sorties, but dropped 40% of the ordnance. It has the largest weapons payload of any aircraft flying, and can drop 24 2000lb JDAMs on a single sortie. Not bad for an aircraft "uncapable of influencing the action." I could provide similar facts to prove each of your statements is equally as poorly thought out and wrong, but it isn't worth my time.

I've served in the Navy and Air Force, but would say the Marine Corps is probably, pound for pound, the best led and most effective service we've got. But I could give you a list a mile long of stupid things the Marine Corps has done, and even more stupid things some Marines have said. Fortunately, I have my head far enough out of my ass to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of each service, and would never claim that any service could win a war without the capabilities of all the others. If you are/were a Marine, stick to writing about the Marines. Your knowledge of the Air Forceis is so gross it merits no further response.

115 posted on 03/31/2002 1:14:41 PM PST by Rokke
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To: Rokke
You sound just like an air force wussy. And no, the B-1 has not dropped 40% of the ordance. Don't forget the B-2 at 2 billion a pop.
116 posted on 03/31/2002 1:18:19 PM PST by aimlow
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To: TADSLOS
Ticket punching and career maneuvering has evolved into a science and institutionalized within the Army, at least. It has also reached the senior NCO corps.

Guess what, the business world is rotten with it, too -- think the best knowledge workers and engineers survive when corporate honchos are under constant pressure from the money-runners to smash headcounts and outyear G&A liabilities? Guess again.

117 posted on 03/31/2002 1:29:35 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus
Guess what, the business world is rotten with it, too -- think the best knowledge workers and engineers survive when corporate honchos are under constant pressure from the money-runners to smash headcounts and outyear G&A liabilities? Guess again

Yeah, there are similarities, unfortunately they end at the bottom line. One is about dollars, the other life and death decisions.

118 posted on 03/31/2002 7:32:48 PM PST by TADSLOS
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To: TADSLOS

Realize this is old post. It damn sure needs to be revisited.


119 posted on 09/22/2007 2:41:26 AM PDT by Lumper20
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