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To: xzins, CCWoody, RnMomof7, Jerry_M, the_doc
Jesus declares infants to be innocent.

No, he does not.

Jesus says of a specific group of children who are brought to Him, "the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these".

There is not a single verse of Scripture anywhere in the Gospels where Jesus states, "infants are Innocent of Sin".

This is what you need Jesus to say.
This is what Jesus does not say.

If you have a specific verse where Jesus specifically states, "infants are Innocent of Sin", present it.

Because Matthew 19:13-14 does not say "infants are Innocent of Sin". Those words are NOWHERE in the passage!! It says, "some children were brought to Him... the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these", a statement which is Calvinist to the core.

How do we reconcile this with "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God?" One is not culpable until one sins. Therefore, the all refers to "all of a culpable age."

Nope. Paul begins his discussion with a reference to the infant rite of circumcision:

If "all" meant "all except those of a young age", then prefacing the discussion with a reference to the infant rite of circumcision woul have been nonsensical.

All have sinned.

Death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. The fact that all are born mortal, is juridically founded upon the fact that all have sinned.
If Infants have not Sinned, they would not be born mortal. If the were not sinners, they could not die in infancy. Death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

777 posted on 02/28/2002 9:36:10 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Answer my 775, bubba.
778 posted on 02/28/2002 9:39:11 PM PST by xzins
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Your 777.

Matthew 21 15But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple area, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they were indignant. 16"Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him. "Yes," replied Jesus, "have you never read, " 'From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise'[1] ?"

Jesus declares infants to be innocent.

How do we reconcile this with "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God?"

One is not culpable until one sins. Therefore, the all refers to "all of a culpable age."

797 posted on 02/28/2002 10:23:17 PM PST by xzins
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Your #777: If Infants have not Sinned, they would not be born mortal. If the were not sinners, they could not die in infancy.

This is an interesting bit of speculation. If not born mortal, what would have happened, and when, before they were born, did they sin?

I suppose you are reasoning from "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23), and forgetting about "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Genesis 2:17). The Fall brought death into the world. Though sinless Himself, our Savior inherited the capacity to die from Mary, His mother. Our Savior's atonement made little children whole from the foundation of the world, and they only become sinners when they become accountable before God for their actions. That is why they should not be baptized as infants.

Take note also of the next verse after the one you quoted:

Romans 5:13
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

and consider also the passage at the end of Romans 6, how Paul talks about choosing good and choosing evil, and the consequences of each:

Romans 6:16,23
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1,063 posted on 03/02/2002 2:22:49 AM PST by White Mountain
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