Hydrogen Powered Cars! HA!

1/25/2002 | John Jamieson

[Old Professer]

I'm not disagreeing with you generally; you had carbon as 14, 1KW as 1HP when it normally requires nearly 2HP, and 1 gallon of gasoline the equal of 2 pounds of hydrogen (since hydrogen has, gram for gram about 41/2 times the energy as gasoline, 2 pounds of H would equal about 11/2 gallons of gasoline in the combustion process) hydrogen separated from gasoline would yield about .188*6.6 pounds or 1.24 pounds H.

[The FRugitive]

Make ultra-safe Nuclear reactors and we have unlimited clean burning fuel for cars.

[John Jamieson]

Calculate the cost per gallon saved yourself. Play the purchase cost diff (vs Echo), extra taxes, extra interest (either lost or spent), extra insurance etc. against the fuel saved. $11 is about right if you don't have to replace that battery.

I workedup the spreadsheet about a year ago and then bought a new computer. It's on my old machine.

[John Jamieson]

Interesting estimates from Edmonds website:

5 year cost of ownership (includes all costs, 15,000 mpyear)

Toyota Echo .30 $/mile
Toyota Prius .40 $/mile
Honda Accord DX .33 $/mile (much bigger, nicer car)

[John Jamieson]

If the country real cared about cutting Arab oil sales the following things make far more sense.

1. Stop burning fuel oil for low grade heat. No oil burning furances (use gas, coal, nuclear electric, etc).

2. Stop burning fuel oil in the remaining power plants (use gas, coal, nuclear).

3. Stop burning fuel oil in ANY stationary engine. (same)

4. Increase the effeciency of all commercial vehicles (they can more easily repay the technology investment because they travel 5 to 10 times as much).

5. Save the oil for cars and recreational vehicles.

THE WHOLE CURRENT APPROACH IS UPSIDE DOWN.

[John Jamieson]

I can't agree with you about Iraq. We should have finished it the first time. We only get a few percent of our oil from them anyway (12% from the whole Gulf). The place would make a nice parking lot for our extra SUVs.

[John Jamieson]

Not for everybody. It's about the same size and weight as the old VW Beatle. I thought the technology was pretty amasing. I'd take a 50 mpg Cadillac based on the same technology.

[John Jamieson]

1 kilowatt is 1 horsepower at normal electric motor eff. Hydrogen is only a couple pounds per cu feet even as a liquid at -420 degrees.

Glad to hear that you don't really disgree with my overall argument. Too many people accept what they are told by people selling stuff. Common sense usually will win.

[John Jamieson]

67 was a great year!

JRJ MIT67

[jackbill]

And the last thing, what to do with millions of tons of "used" fuel rods ?

Recycle them, as the French and others are doing. And as we would be doing except for the peanut farmer.

[Old Professer]

1 kilowatt is 1 horsepower at normal electric motor eff. Hydrogen is only a couple pounds per cu feet even as a liquid at -420 degrees.

Bear with me here, since 746 watts=1 HP, then 1000/746=1.34 HP ideally; efficiency losses brings us to between 1.5 and 2 HP depending on engine used and fuel efficiency.

One cubic foot of any liquid is 7.48 gallons, are you sure of your temperature for liquid hydrogen? I get -431(-257C) from Langes.

[John Jamieson]

1000 watts used at 74.6% eff makes 1 Hp.

-42X is what the liquid hydrogen was in the Shuttle external tank. It's very dependant on pressure. Ours was always boiling.

[TheHydroBaron]

I recommend Roy McAlister, president of the American Hydrogen Association. After looking into Hydrogen and why it hasn't been made a reality, I came across the individual previously mentioned. Although I thought purchasing three of his DVD's and his book would be another dead end an associate and I converted a small lawn mower engine's carburetor by removing it and feeding a Hydrogen fuel line directly behind the intake port. The mower runs just as good or even better than when it was on gasoline.

[Fiddlstix]

.....Hydrogen, made from water, is thus an energy storage media like a battery, not an energy source.....

Very true.

Question: Why just use the hydrogen? Why not use the oxygen too?
In other words, build an engine with "injectors" of some sort and inject the proper amount of hydrogen and oxygen into the combustion chamber.
It seems to me like that might increase the efficiency of the overall process as opposed to just using the hydrogen and "throwing the oxygen away" as it were.

Just asking.

[John Jamieson]

Because there is lots of oxygen floating around to use. The nitrogen in air helps control the maximum temp reducing cooling problems. No eff. increase to using pure oxygen.