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To: BibChr
You are very well aware of the reason Jews spell G-d so why the continual disrespect from you? You can't be that stupid but I have seen many times that you are arrogant. Not everyone believes exactly as you do. Imagine that.

Would you like to understand one of the big reasons Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah?

From Dennis Prager's book, The Nine Questions People Ask About Judiasm, Judaism does not believe that Jesus was the Messiah because he did not fulfill any messianic prophecies. The major prophecy concerning the messianic days is that "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, nor shall they learn war anymore" (Isaiah 2:4; see also Isaiah 2:1-3, 11:1-10). World peace must accompany the Messiah, and should peace not come, the Messiah has obviously not come...

20 posted on 01/17/2002 6:43:19 AM PST by BlueHorseShoe
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To: BlueHorseShoe
Some of the fulfillments of the Messianic prophecies in Jesus were as follows:

He was to be the seed of the woman (Gen. 3:15) who was to bruise Satan's head (Gal. 4:4). As the seed of Abraham (Gen. 22:18, Gal. 3:16) and the seed of David (Psalm 132:11, Jer. 23:5, Acts 13:23), he was to come from the tribe of Judah (Gen. 49:10, Heb. 7:14).

He was to come a specified time (Gen. 49:10, Dan. 9:24-25, Luke 2:1), born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14, Matt. 1:18-23), in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2, Matt. 2:1, Luke 2:5,6). Great persons were to visit Him and adore Him (Psalm 72:10, Matt. 2:1-11), and through the rage of a jealous king, innocent children were to be slaughtered (Jer. 31:15, Matt. 2:16-18). He was to be preceded by a forerunner, John the Baptist, before entering His public ministry (Isaiah 40:3, Mal. 3:1, Luke 1:17, Matt. 3:13).

He was to be a prophet like Moses (Deut. 18:18, Acts 3:20- 22), and to have a special anointing of the Holy Spirit (Psalm 45:7, Isaiah 11:2, Isaiah 61:1,2, Matt. 3:16, Luke 4:15-21,43). He was to be a priest after the order of Melchizedek (Psalm 110:4, Heb. 5:5,6). As the servant of the Lord, he was to be a faithful and patient redeemer for the Gentiles as well as for the Jews (Isaiah 42:1-4, Matt. 12:18-21).

His ministry was to begin in Galilee (Isaiah 9:1,2, Matt. 4: 12,16-23); He was later to enter Jerusalem (Zech. 9:9, Matt. 21: 1-5) to bring salvation. He was to enter the temple (Hag. 2:7-9, Mal. 3:1, Matt. 21:12). His zeal for the Lord is mentioned (Psalm 69:9, John 2:17); His manner of teaching was to be by parables (Psalm 78:2, Matt. 13:34-35); His ministry was to be characterized by miracles (Isaiah 35:5-6, Matt. 11:4-6, John 11:47). He was to be rejected by His brethren (Psalm 69:8, Isaiah 53:3, John 1:11, John 7:5), and a "stone of stumbling" to the Jews--a "rock of offense" (Isaiah 8:14, Rom. 9:32, I Pet. 2:8).

He was to be hated without cause (Psalm 69:4, Isaiah 49:7, John 7:48, John 15:25), rejected by the rulers (Psalm 118:22, Matt. 21:42, John 7:48), betrayed by a friend (Psalm 41:9, Psalm 55:12,14, John 13:18,21), forsaken by His disciples (Zech. 13:7, Matt. 26:31-56), sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zech. 11:12, Matt. 26:15), and His price given for the potter's field (Zech. 11:13, Matt. 27:7). He was to be smitten on the cheek (Mic. 5:1, Matt. 27:30), spat upon (Isaiah 50:6, Matt. 27:30), mocked (Psalm 22:7- 8, Matt. 27:31,39-44), and beaten (Psalm 50:6, Matt. 26:67, 27:26,30).

His death by crucifixion is described in Psalm 22. The meaning of His death, as a substitutionary atonement, is provided in Isaiah 53. His hands and feet were to be pierced (Psalm 22:16, Zech. 12:10, John 19:18, John 19:37, John 20:25), yet not one of His bones was to be broken (Ex. 12:46, Psalm 34:20, John 19:33-36). He was to suffer thirst (Psalm 22:15, John 19:28) and be given vinegar to drink (Psalm 69:21, Matt. 27:34). He was to be numbered with the transgressors (Isaiah 53:12, Matt. 27:38).

His body was to be buried with the rich (Isaiah 53:9, Matt. 27:57-60), but was not to see corruption (Psalm 16:10, Acts 2:31). He was to be raised from the dead (Psalm 2:7, 16:10, Acts 13:33), and ascend to the right hand of God (Psalm 68:18, Luke 24:51, Acts 1:9, Psalm 110:1, Heb 1:3).1

It is sometimes asserted that Jesus did not fulfill all of the Messianic expectations outlined in the Hebrew Scriptures, only many of them. It must be remembered, however, that Jesus said repeatedly that he would be coming again in glory, and there is every reason to expect these additional passages to be fulfilled at that time. Certainly the vast number of prophecies that he did fulfill defies all odds, such that, after considering them carefully, it would take more faith to believe he was not the Messiah than to believe that he was.

21 posted on 01/17/2002 6:47:41 AM PST by Pete
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To: BlueHorseShoe
Good, another two simple questions!

First, as I have explained numerous times (and I'm sure you're not stupid), I respect God and His word, in which He moves His prophets to use His personal name some ~6823 times, and in which He urges His people to call on and invoke and swear by His name. I respect God. I have no respect for people who imagine they can be holier or godlier than God.

Second, your second point is beside the point. It is sad, but true, that some Jews do not acknowledge their Messiah. Moses predicted this would be the case. But the article discusses the propriety of those who DO acknowledge Israel's Messiah trying to persuade those who FAIL to acknowledge Him. I was simply demonstrating that believing Israelites reaching out to non-believing Israelites is fully in accord with Torah.

Third, as he is about so many other things, Prager is wrong about Jesus. He fulfilled many prophecies, including the crucial passage in Isaiah 52:13 — 53:12, which precedes His bringing peace to the earth.

Thanks for an interesting response!

Dan
Why I Am (Still) a Christian

27 posted on 01/17/2002 6:52:30 AM PST by BibChr
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To: BlueHorseShoe
You are very well aware of the reason Jews spell G-d so why the continual disrespect from you? You can't be that stupid but I have seen many times that you are arrogant. Not everyone believes exactly as you do. Imagine that.

This is ridiculous mummery. Depending on your monitor and screen resolution, you write and erase the image of the word God or Jehovah between 60 and 120 times a second on a computer display. If you minimize a window, you erase it. If you, as a Jew, knowingly participate here at FR, knowing full well that you will thereby be causing to be written and destroyed the names God and Jehovah, you have then willingly participated in the destruction of God's name thousands of times before you read a single post. Because even if you don't write God and cause it to appear thousands of times on the screen in your posts, you know full well that someone else will. And for you to read their unavoidable posts on a thread necessitates that you know in advance by the use of such a device you will cause to be created and destroyed on your screen the words God and Jehovah and YHVH and YHWH and Yahweh, etc.

This prohibition is nothing more than pointless piety. I can't imagine the technical ignorance that has produced the practice of writing G-d.

In your writing and in your mind, long term use of these terms will cause your neural network to automatically parse G-d as God. Therefore, in your mind, the two are identical. Unless you believe that God and G-d are two different gods.

You might make your arguments coherent if you are talking about writing in Hebrew. You could make a legimately pious argument there, I think. But G-d is so nonsensical it's just bizarre and ignorant.
43 posted on 01/17/2002 7:27:46 AM PST by George W. Bush
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To: BlueHorseShoe;angelo
Christians would divide prophecy into two sections....the 1st and the 2nd coming....The scripture about nations not lifting the sword against nation would be the second coming prophesy....when Jesus returns to rule and reign....at that point Israel will see Him as He is too...

I would be interested in a list of scriputres that are in the Christian OT ,but not in the Jewish scripture

82 posted on 01/17/2002 9:00:49 AM PST by RnMomof7
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