Was G-D Wrong?

Mid East Analyst & Commentator ^ | December 31, 2001 | Emanuel A. Winston

[the_doc]

Good post, especially the point about "G-d." It may help a lot of sincere FR believers who are sort of stuck in the Old Testament despite the Book of Hebrews' warnings about that kind of retrograde Christianity.

As I understand it, the OT Jews were worried about the commandment which says "I will not hold him guiltless who takes My name in vain." If we read this verse in the way the Jews would have been likely to read it, we see it as presenting an apparently unpardonable sin.

My point is that to be held "not guiltless" is a damning disaster. And the verse promises this damning disaster for anyone who uses His name in vain. The Jews figured that they'd better put a whole lot of distance between themselves and that disaster--so they didn't use God's name at all.

But if we continue this mindset in the era of the New Covenant, we miss some of the most important points of the gospel.

First of all, what God demands of us is genuine faith, not vain professions of same. It follows from this that God will burn the tares--and He explicitly declares that He will do this.

This reminds us that God will not hold guiltless the person who has no genuine faith in the God Whose name he would presume to take upon himself. To profess faith in Christ when you are not even born again is a vain use of the Lord's name.

But it is also true that the very nature of faith is such that it entails a true vital union with Almighty God and a trust stemming from that relationship. We must appropriate this bliss in the faith of God's elect. And the bliss is like that of a blessed marriage, in which the bride certainly does take upon herself the very name of her beloved.

It will not do, by the way, to say "Well, I'll take the name of Jesus/Yeshua upon myself, but not the Name of G_d." This is tantamount to a denial that the person who is Jesus/Yeshua, no matter what name we use, IS God. We need to stay out of this antichristian confession. It is potentially deadly, as the Apostle John warns us!

(My point here is that the legalistic mindset is more dangerous than some folks have realized. See Jeremiah 17:9. Except a man be born again, he will get everything important to Christianity WRONG. It is possible to be a pseudo-sincere religionist like Nicodemus was in John Chapter 3 and wind up in hell.)

Therefore, the faith of the Son of God demands that we sincerely claim for ourselves the name of Almighty God and expect in that sincerity of trust that He will save us unto heaven itself.

Failure to do this is to draw back to perdition. Failure to be bold in the faith of the Judgment Day sincerity which regeneration always produces is a kind of cowardice which God loathes.

So, when we apply the third commandment to the matter of hypocritical claims upon the Name/Being of God, we see that intractably obdurate unbelief is the real essence of the only unpardonable sin mentioned in the Lord's gospel.

Look at the ironies here. It is possible for a person to be so worried about fastidiousness concerning the legal implications of the third commandment that he misses Christ altogether.

I do not assume that Messianic Jews are lost just because they are afraid to use the name of God in the ordinary which Gentile-born Christians do dare to use it. Most of the Messianic Jews have learned the wrong mindset from birth, and it is hard for them to come all the way out of this. But they really need to grow out of some of this stuff. They need to leave carnal baggage behind and walk in the Spirit.

I am not saying that the Messianic Jews should not delight to realize that God has a remnant of His elect among "even" the Jews in a day and age in which the vast majority of Christians are Gentiles. But they need to realize that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile. They need to realize that the Law Code which partitioned us into two groups is not in force as a Code anymore. They need to realize that attempts to continue the Old Covenant in any form undermines the New Covenant which it anticipated in the typology of progressive revelation.

The pinnacle of God's purposes is not national Israel, not even a converted national Israel. Rather, the pinnacle of God's purposes is His BRIDE. And that is the CHURCH.

When we see that, the gospel is exciting indeed! I certainly hope that some of my FReeper brethren will get this vision. Failing that, there is a worst-case scenario which should be mentioned. It is possible for some ostensibly "Messianic Jews" to be harboring an evil heart of unbelief after all. As the Book of Hebrews warns us, we'd better not make a vain profession and draw back to perdition as faithless cowards. We need to see the continuum which the two Testaments present, but we'd better not get stuck in the mindset of the lost Jews.

We'd better be Christians. That's different. According to Paul, we Christians are the true Jews. The fellow who is a little too interested in being an ethnic Jew may not be a true Jew after all. (See Romans 2 and Ephesians 2 and Philippians 3 and Galatians and Hebrews and John 3!)

[malakhi]

Still, if Judaism is the BEST way to God (of many) why not share that? To not do so, if you really think Judaism is best, seems not loving.

You just don't get it. See Sabramerican's posts, above.

So, ALL the below don't apply to Yeshua and are ripped completely out of context?

Yes. Some of the items you list do apply to the messiah; most do not. Jesus was not the messiah because he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies. There are four main ones, and several lesser ones. The big four are: world peace, universal knowledge of God, return of all the Jews to Israel, rebuilding of the temple.

Now, you are free to believe as you wish. If you follow the tenets of Christianity, then you are a righteous person. I have no problem with you worshipping as you choose. I feel no need to 'convert' you to my way of thinking. I just wish Christians would reciprocate.

[malakhi]

If your going to look at the Hebrew for the OT....you need to also look at the Greek as well for the NT

Fair enough. ;o)

Definition : 1.kindred a. offspring b. family c. stock, tribe, nation (i.e. nationality or descent from a particular people) c. the aggregate of many individuals of the same nature, kind, sort

I'm not sure the context can support your interpretation that Jesus meant some time far in the future. Setting that aside, though, it seems that the disciples did expect his imminent return. Otherwise Peter would not have needed to provide an explanation for Jesus's delay.

[Cu Roi]

This is schizoprhenic... 2 kinds of people in the world, the chosen people and non-chosen? If simple adherence to the Law makes life here and now better for people, why wouldn't you do everything you can to share that?

This is explained pretty well in reply #50. When I was living in Israel Jewish people invited me over Friday nights or for holidays and shared their faith with me on a number of other occasions as well. But there is a difference in sharing one's faith and proselytizing someone.

When I have a religious discussion with a Jewish person it is usually from a prospective of saying ``this is what I believe and this is how our traditions came about''. The same holds true for many of my Hindu friends. Although I was raised as a Christian, I don't feel comfortable talking about them about their faith because I often wind up at the recieving end of a sales pitch.

[sanchmo]

Often in Isaiah "my servant" refers to Israel. This servant is often described as chosen, but also as blind and deaf.
Sometimes, Isaiah's servant is not Israel:
Isa 20:3 - Isaiah is "my servant"
Isa 37:35 - David is "my servant"

The Servant of 42 is clearly not the same "servant" as Israel:
1 "Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations.
2 He will not shout or cry out, or raise his voice in the streets.
3 A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;
4 he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his law the islands will put their hope."
5 This is what God the LORD says-- he who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and all that comes out of it, who gives breath to its people, and life to those who walk on it:
6 "I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles,
7 to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.
8 "I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.
9 See, the former things have taken place, and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you."

In 49:6 the Servant and Israel cannot be the same:
he says "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

Again in 50:10 - Who among you fears the LORD and obeys the word of his servant? Let him who walks in the dark, who has no light, trust in the name of the LORD and rely on his God.

Also 52:13-15 See, my servant will act wisely [or: will prosper]; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. Just as there were many who were appalled at him [or: you] -- his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness-- so will he sprinkle many nations,[or: so will many nations marvel at him] and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.

The Servant of 53 is a guiltless sin-offering. Israel was neither, and the text makes it clear it isn't Israel:
"for the transgression of my people he was stricken" [or "he was cut off from the land of the living for the transgression of my people, to whom the blow was due"]
"he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth"
"the LORD makes [or "you make"] his life a guilt offering"
"he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors"
"he was cut off from the land of the living"
"He was assigned a grave with the wicked"

[BibChr]

Yes, if anything a Messianic Jew has even less excuse for this superstitious practice. What I wonder, in their case, is why they write "G-d" for God, but not "J-s-s" for Jesus, whom they confess to be God incarnate.

I've also remarked in the past that it's passing strange that a Jew will write "G-d" but not "Dani-l" or "Isra-l."

Dan

[ArGee]

Christianity is not Judaism.

Christianity, as practiced today by most Christians, is not the same as Judaism, as practiced today by most Jews.

I define Judaism as the life to which G-d called His people. His people are the children of Abraham through Isaac. He called them primarily through the prophets, although the prophet Moshe was actually seen speaking to G-d. The story of this call is the Tanak, or the Old Testament to Christians.

Part of the call was that all of the nations would be blessed and that the light of Messiah would be shone upon all the nations. The New Covenant is a description of how this was fulfilled through Yeshua. The practice of "The Way" as shared and taught in the Brit Chadashah, is Jewish for the Jews, and Noahic for the goyim.

Therefore, Christianity is Jewish. It is the fulfillment of what G-d called the Jews to be, and the expression of the faithfulness of G-d to accomplish all that He sets His mind to accomplish.

I know that many Jews do not accept that Christianity is Jewish. I know that many Christians do not accept that either.

I draw my conclusions from the Tanak and the Brit Chadashah, which Christians call The Bible.

Back to your analogy. Suppose I put a basketball net in my driveway for my children and set it at 6' off the ground so that they may learn basketball without being discouraged. One day I come to them raist the net to 10' off the ground. Have I changed the game or just asked them to play by the official rules?

Shalom.

[American in Israel]

I usualy try to stay out of these threads because they generate useless offense. NOT trying to offend, I have two retorical questions.

Why can a Jew be a Budist, or a New Ager, but not a Christian?

With all the Messiahs that the Jews have over here, (I see their pictures everywhere), The Jews allow themselves to be Jews that believe in this or that Messiah. Why do they not allow themselves to accecpt another Jew that believes in Yeshua (Jesus) as the messiah?

It seems to me the rejection of Yeshua is strangly very focused. That is a very clear tipoff to those who like to spot odd patterns as indications of deeper things. Small waves can indicate large currents...

[AnalogReigns]

On atonement you skipped one verse:

"For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul." (Lev. 17:11)

I for one, am very glad I rest on blood atonement--that done by Yeshua--to be made right in God's eyes. God is too holy for me to be able to earn His favor by my feeble works.

[VRWC_minion]

If God knew Christians would try to convert Jews was he wrong ?

[VRWC_minion]

Why can a Jew be a Budist, or a New Ager, but not a Christian?

THe premise of your question is in error

http://www.jewsforjesus.org

[Sabramerican]

I usually avoid these religion threads, for good reason.

Let me just say that Judaism is not just a certain belief and guide. It involves actions. Things Jews must do and must not do.

Christianity has done away with those rules.

Take my analogy above. In private life you can wear a big bold red tie to work every day. In the Service you can't. You either want to wear the red tie or you want to be in the Service. You can't do both.

Christianity, which doesn't follow the rules and obligations of Judaism, is not Judaism. It's something else- that something may be great- but it's not Judaism.

With that I will leave this thread.

[VRWC_minion]

One of the things I find fascinating about Jewish belief and practice (among those who reject their Messiah Yeshua (Jesus)that is) is this LACK of proselytization

Because by scripture you cannot become a Jew. You are born into it.

[is_is]

the disciples did expect his imminent return.

From a strictly human view point, my theory: the disciples had seen SO much prophecy/miracles fulfilled before their own eyes that they probably would have expected a short time frame....they probably woke up each morning with the expectation that this could be THE DAY!!!!thus needing to have it explained to them when their "expectations" were not met....

[Jeremiah Jr]

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our G-D is one LORD.  And thou shalt love the LORD thy G-D with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Debarim 6:4-5

The Torah begins with a large beit

The letter beit, from the word "house," refers to G-d's house: "My house will be called a House of Prayer for all peoples."

Rabbi Yitzchok (Isaac) said: "Why is the á "Beth" open on one side, and closed on the other side"?

He offers the following answer: "When Man comes along in order to unite with the Torah, the open side of the á "Beth" indicates that the Torah is ready to receive him and to participate with him, meaning to co-operate with him".

However, when man closes his eyes and diverts from the Torah, walking away into another path, the Torah then conceals herself from the other side, resembling the right side of the á "Beth".

The following is expressed in Proverbs, thus:      THE TORAH SAYS TO MAN: IF YOU WILL FORSAKE ME FOR ONE DAY, I WILL, IN TURN, MOVE AWAY FROM YOU THE DISTANCE OF TWO DAYS. MAN WILL NOT BE ABLE TO FIND HIS ENTRANCE TO THE TORAH UNTIL HE REPENTS AND BECOMES UNITED WITH THE TORAH, FACE TO FACE, AND THUS NOT ALLOW HIMSELF TO BE MOVED FROM THE TORAH ANY MORE. THEREFORE, THE TORAH CALLS OUT TO MAN: TO YOU, MAN, I AM CALLING: "UNTO YOU, O MAN, I CALL; AND MY VOICE IS TO THE SONS OF MAN. SHE CRIETH IN THE CHIEF PLACE OF CONCOURSE, IN THE OPENING OF THE GATES, IN THE CITY SHE UTTERETH HER WORDS …"

211) Rabbi Yehuda said: The á "Beth" has the Image of two roofs and one line which unites them. We learn from this that one of the roofs points to heaven above, which is "Z.A"; whereas the other points toward the earth, which is "Malchut" (Kingdom). The Creator, who is "Yesod" (Foundation) is united with them and is receiving them.

Rabbi Elozor said: The first three upper lights are holy, that is, they are the three pillars which constitute one unity and make up the whole Torah. It is they who open the doors to all treasures, meaning that they bestow bounty to the "Emoonoh" ("Malchut").

The three pillars" house everything, which explains why they are called "House". It is because they are the three pillars of the "Beth", which refer to the three pillars relating to "Z.A". Thus, the three pillars are a house.

http://kabbalah-web.org/engkab/zohar/207.htm

Challah Bread Recipe

The following is a recipe for making "Challah", the bread that is used on the Sabbath and at most festivals. You would make two loaves before the Sabbath would begin. This is because there is to be no cooking on the Sabbath, so one loaf is for Friday and the second loaf is for Saturday.

Divide the dough into 3 pieces. Cut 1 piece into thirds; with your hands roll each piece into a 16 inch-long rope or snake. Place ropes side by side and braid as you would hair.

***

3 are one.

[AnalogReigns]

The statistical odds of any one person even fulfilling a handful of varied predictions listed from the Hebrew scriptures must be astronomically high. From your easy dismissal of the evidence, I suspect you really haven't examined it. Sorry, that's just how it sounds.

Equal or greater to the possibility that Christians have read INTO Hebrew scriptures predictions that Jesus specifically fulfilled, is that Jewish scholars for centuries have read OUT OF their own scriptures those very same predictions--rationalizing away that Messiah may have been crucified.

Followers of Yeshua have always maintained your 4 major prophesies would indeed be fulfilled in the future by Christ, and that He proved what He claimed by physically rising up from the dead.

[tonycavanagh]

FMI

[American in Israel]

THe premise of your question is in error

Why? Any flavor of Jew can come to Israel, just as long as they are not Christian flavored. I always figured it was just offence from years past. Oh well, no matter. Blessings to you and yours and Shabbat Shalom.

[malakhi]

On atonement you skipped one verse: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul." (Lev. 17:11)

On the contrary, I specifically addressed this. Go back and look again.

[malakhi]

Because by scripture you cannot become a Jew. You are born into it.

You can convert. Read the book of Ruth.