Was G-D Wrong?

Mid East Analyst & Commentator ^ | December 31, 2001 | Emanuel A. Winston

[Pete]

Some of the fulfillments of the Messianic prophecies in Jesus were as follows:

He was to be the seed of the woman (Gen. 3:15) who was to bruise Satan's head (Gal. 4:4). As the seed of Abraham (Gen. 22:18, Gal. 3:16) and the seed of David (Psalm 132:11, Jer. 23:5, Acts 13:23), he was to come from the tribe of Judah (Gen. 49:10, Heb. 7:14).

He was to come a specified time (Gen. 49:10, Dan. 9:24-25, Luke 2:1), born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14, Matt. 1:18-23), in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2, Matt. 2:1, Luke 2:5,6). Great persons were to visit Him and adore Him (Psalm 72:10, Matt. 2:1-11), and through the rage of a jealous king, innocent children were to be slaughtered (Jer. 31:15, Matt. 2:16-18). He was to be preceded by a forerunner, John the Baptist, before entering His public ministry (Isaiah 40:3, Mal. 3:1, Luke 1:17, Matt. 3:13).

He was to be a prophet like Moses (Deut. 18:18, Acts 3:20- 22), and to have a special anointing of the Holy Spirit (Psalm 45:7, Isaiah 11:2, Isaiah 61:1,2, Matt. 3:16, Luke 4:15-21,43). He was to be a priest after the order of Melchizedek (Psalm 110:4, Heb. 5:5,6). As the servant of the Lord, he was to be a faithful and patient redeemer for the Gentiles as well as for the Jews (Isaiah 42:1-4, Matt. 12:18-21).

His ministry was to begin in Galilee (Isaiah 9:1,2, Matt. 4: 12,16-23); He was later to enter Jerusalem (Zech. 9:9, Matt. 21: 1-5) to bring salvation. He was to enter the temple (Hag. 2:7-9, Mal. 3:1, Matt. 21:12). His zeal for the Lord is mentioned (Psalm 69:9, John 2:17); His manner of teaching was to be by parables (Psalm 78:2, Matt. 13:34-35); His ministry was to be characterized by miracles (Isaiah 35:5-6, Matt. 11:4-6, John 11:47). He was to be rejected by His brethren (Psalm 69:8, Isaiah 53:3, John 1:11, John 7:5), and a "stone of stumbling" to the Jews--a "rock of offense" (Isaiah 8:14, Rom. 9:32, I Pet. 2:8).

He was to be hated without cause (Psalm 69:4, Isaiah 49:7, John 7:48, John 15:25), rejected by the rulers (Psalm 118:22, Matt. 21:42, John 7:48), betrayed by a friend (Psalm 41:9, Psalm 55:12,14, John 13:18,21), forsaken by His disciples (Zech. 13:7, Matt. 26:31-56), sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zech. 11:12, Matt. 26:15), and His price given for the potter's field (Zech. 11:13, Matt. 27:7). He was to be smitten on the cheek (Mic. 5:1, Matt. 27:30), spat upon (Isaiah 50:6, Matt. 27:30), mocked (Psalm 22:7- 8, Matt. 27:31,39-44), and beaten (Psalm 50:6, Matt. 26:67, 27:26,30).

His death by crucifixion is described in Psalm 22. The meaning of His death, as a substitutionary atonement, is provided in Isaiah 53. His hands and feet were to be pierced (Psalm 22:16, Zech. 12:10, John 19:18, John 19:37, John 20:25), yet not one of His bones was to be broken (Ex. 12:46, Psalm 34:20, John 19:33-36). He was to suffer thirst (Psalm 22:15, John 19:28) and be given vinegar to drink (Psalm 69:21, Matt. 27:34). He was to be numbered with the transgressors (Isaiah 53:12, Matt. 27:38).

His body was to be buried with the rich (Isaiah 53:9, Matt. 27:57-60), but was not to see corruption (Psalm 16:10, Acts 2:31). He was to be raised from the dead (Psalm 2:7, 16:10, Acts 13:33), and ascend to the right hand of God (Psalm 68:18, Luke 24:51, Acts 1:9, Psalm 110:1, Heb 1:3).¹

It is sometimes asserted that Jesus did not fulfill all of the Messianic expectations outlined in the Hebrew Scriptures, only many of them. It must be remembered, however, that Jesus said repeatedly that he would be coming again in glory, and there is every reason to expect these additional passages to be fulfilled at that time. Certainly the vast number of prophecies that he did fulfill defies all odds, such that, after considering them carefully, it would take more faith to believe he was not the Messiah than to believe that he was.

[BlueHorseShoe]

You can choose to be wrong, I don't care. You can't dispute a fact. I can decide I think grass is purple but that doesn't make it so. Go forth and educate yourself. I'm not going to try to do it for you. I've already given you the facts.

[is_is]

Your believing this does not make it true.

You are absolutely correct....It is true because God said it is.....

The Jewish faith was correct and the way to God....until He sent his son....He promised you a savior, did he not?.....and the Jewish people/faith rejected Christ the Son of God as that savior. From The day he gave his life on that cross for ALL mans sins, forward, is where the Jewish people miss the boat.

I am truly interested in why....the Jewish Faith/people are still waiting on his return and why they rejected Christ as the Son of God.

[sanchmo]

Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[1] and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.[2]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes[3] his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light [of life][4] and be satisfied[5] ; by his knowledge[6] my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[7] and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[8] because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

[1] Or: From arrest
[2] Or: away. Yet who of his generation considered that he was cut off from the land of the living for the transgression of my people, to whom the blow was due?
[3] Hebrew: though you make
[4] Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint); Masoretic Text does not have: the light [of life].
[5] Or (with Masoretic Text): [11] He will see the result of the suffering of his soul and be satisfied
[6] Or: by knowledge of him
[7] Or: many
[8] Or: numerous

[asformeandformyhouse]

Galatians 3:24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

[Goetz_von_Berlichingen]

"The Jewish people are deeply familiar with book burning. During the Church-inspired Inquisition, Torah parchment scrolls were wrapped around rabbis and those who refused forced conversion to Christianity and then set on fire."

We will studiously avoid mentioning that the persuecution of the Jews in Spain was largely motivated by their covert support for the Moslems with whom Spain had been at war for several centuries. And gruesome executions were not reserved for Jews: Turks did it to Christians (and vice versa), Protestants did it to Catholics (and vice versa). The Jews were not specifically singled out for egregiously brutal handling. This was just the way of the world back then.

I observe that Jews who do not scruple at condemning Torquemada are quite silent with respect to the treatment of the Canaanites, what with the divinely ordered slaughter of men, women, children, livestock, and housepets. I guess Jews get a "historical context dispensation" but goyim do not.

"We recall Hitler's thugs confiscating Jewish holy books and scrolls, using them to create huge bonfires. Later, they burned knowledgeable Jews in the Krupp ovens - with children often thrown in alive. Neither the Catholic Church nor Islam protested."

The Nazis confiscated and detroyed lots of books; most of them were NOT Jewish. The Nazis also killed lots of people -- 20 million, by some estimates -- and here's the surprise: most of them weren't Jewish either. If anything, the largest block of civilians killed by the Nazis probably consisted of Orthodox Christians. But they don't even merit a footnote in most Holocaust Studies. Maybe it's payback for the pogroms of the Cossacks.

And the Catholic Church was silent? We will ignore all of the contemporary accounts of the Vatican's condemnation of Nazi practices, amply documented in the New York Times during the war. We will ignore the praise heaped upon Pope Pius XII during his lifetime by Jews who were rescued by the Church, and hidden on the very grounds of the Vatican. We will ignore the imprisonment of Christian clergy and laity who resisted the Nazis. Most importantly, we will ignore the Nazis documented war against Christianity and post-war plans to "settle with the Church once and for all." You can easily find this in the writings of Goebbels, Streicher, Rosenberg, and Hitler himself.

And, by the way, Krupp didn't make ovens. It made steel and heavy machinery, including cannon and armoured vehicles.

"The surge of radical religions has an unhappy past. The Christian Crusades swept through Europe and the Holy Land, killing everyone in their path always proclaiming this was being done in G-d's Name . . . Similarly, the Muslim nations surged back against the Crusaders, imposing Islam on the Holy Land and into Spain and France.

Rather than simply ignoring history, the author here conveniently reverses it, putting the effect before the cause. A glance at any map will reveal that Islam is not native to either France or Spain (or even North Africa). It was imposed through brutal conquest by nomadic barbarians. The Crusades were a response to Islamic aggression, not the cause.

I see no reason to convert Jews to Christianity, since the original Covenant was not abrogated. But it amazes me that so many Jews (and I am thinking specifically of the membership of organisations like the ADL, ACLU, NEA) continue to propagate lies about Christianity. What point does it serve to continually accuse contemporary Christians of the crimes of people three hundred years ago, or -- worse yet -- accuse them of complicity in the Nazi regime? Frankly, I am surprised that they haven't gotten around to calling the Lenin/Stalin purges and Gulag an anti-semitic plot of the Orthodox Church. Maybe they will, some day, after they can convince us that the NKVD was staffed exclusively by gentiles.

[BibChr]

Good, another two simple questions!

First, as I have explained numerous times (and I'm sure you're not stupid), I respect God and His word, in which He moves His prophets to use His personal name some ~6823 times, and in which He urges His people to call on and invoke and swear by His name. I respect God. I have no respect for people who imagine they can be holier or godlier than God.

Second, your second point is beside the point. It is sad, but true, that some Jews do not acknowledge their Messiah. Moses predicted this would be the case. But the article discusses the propriety of those who DO acknowledge Israel's Messiah trying to persuade those who FAIL to acknowledge Him. I was simply demonstrating that believing Israelites reaching out to non-believing Israelites is fully in accord with Torah.

Third, as he is about so many other things, Prager is wrong about Jesus. He fulfilled many prophecies, including the crucial passage in Isaiah 52:13 — 53:12, which precedes His bringing peace to the earth.

Thanks for an interesting response!

Dan
Why I Am (Still) a Christian

[BlueHorseShoe]

I do not wish to argue this with you. I respect your religion. However I will mention that nowhere in the Bible does it mention the idea of a second coming which is needed by Christians to fulfill some of these things that are not problems for Jews. I don't wish to get into any religious debate and I usually try to steer very clear of these Bible thumper threads for this very reason. I don't care how you believe but just that you do is nice. That's it. I just care when some of you misrepresent things you truly do not and could not understand. ;^D

[malakhi]

Debarim [Deuteronomy] 18:15-22

The Jewish interpretation of this passage is that it refers to all the future prophets, not just one. You agree that there was more than one prophet after Moses?

[BlueHorseShoe]

Bygones. ;^D

[is_is]

You gave me NO facts....I on the other hand came closer to stating a few facts (unscientific admittably). You stated nothing more than an opinion....you have a right to that opinion....this is a "discussion" board so don't get your panties all wadded up when someone elses opinion differs...

[wai-ming]

To convert a Jew to another religion plainly states that the all-seeing G-d was wrong in selecting the Jewish people to serve him.

This is one of the most absurd statements I've read in a long time. To agree with it, one would have to assume the following:

God selected the Jewish people to serve him.

Okay, I'll give you that one. But God also selected the entire house of Israel, which consisted of 12 tribes. The house of Judah (the Jews) make up only one twelfth of Israel. Why is the author unconcerned about other Israelites who may be under the same covenant to serve God?

One serves God by not converting from Judaism.

Give me a break. There are thousands of ways to "serve God," one of which is doing unheralded acts of Christian service.

A Jewish person should not allow himself/herself to be converted to another religion.

Is the Jewish faith so weak, that mere exposure another religion is something to be feared? Having a Bible doesn't make a person Christian. We have plenty of evidence of that.

To convert a Jew...

This is directed at the converter, not the convertee. How can Jewish law bind those who are not Jews?

God was wrong...

Christians do not believe that God was "wrong" in the Old Testament. Why do Jews believe He was wrong in the New Testament? Someone has a misinterpretation of God's intentions. Perhaps we should ask God what He really meant, rather than attributing things to Him that we want to believe He meant.

Let the kid keep his Bible.

[malakhi]

It must be remembered, however, that Jesus said repeatedly that he would be coming again in glory

Please point out for me exactly where in the Hebrew scriptures the messiah is prophecied to come more than once. Jesus himself said that his return would be within the lives of 'this generation'. His disciples clearly expected his imminent return. It wasn't until 2 Peter that we see them beginning to try to come up with reasons for the delay of Jesus's expected return.

[Cu Roi]

One of the things I find fascinating about Jewish belief and practice (among those who reject their Messiah Yeshua (Jesus)that is) is this LACK of proselytization. If Judaism IS the truth, and the rest of religions, including Christianity are distortions of the truth, you'd think for the love of others Jews would WANT to tell us that.

Maybe it is because Jews are generally secure enough in their own beliefs that they don't feel the need to convince everybody else that they are right.

[George W. Bush]

Recently, as a result of an article I posted, I was asked to comment on a recent event wherein a Hebrew teacher in a Jewish school in Israel burned a copy of the New Testament given to a 6th grade student by a Christian missionary.

Well, we can hope it was only an NIV or some other corrupt modern version. The teacher was entirely legal in burning the book if the boy who possessed it consented. Period.

As for the material actually given to the Jewish youths for the purposes of conversion, simply gather it up and return it to the entrance of the institution from whence it came.

Pretty preachy advice coming from an obvious atheist. The missionaries would merely distribute it yet again. Since the book was in their legal possession, burning it publicly was a protest and a way of preventing its return. The author is a PC Jewish liberal who doesn't understand his own religion and completely misunderstands the nature and history of Christian and Islamic belief.

To convert a Jew to another religion plainly states that the all-seeing G-d was wrong in selecting the Jewish people to serve him.

I wonder if he understands the idea that Jesus was the Messiah and that the mission of Israel was fulfilled. It has now become a light unto the nations through its (rejected) messiah, Christ. This is what a Christian is, a servant of the Jewish Messiah, the Saviour of Jew and Gentile alike.

Generally, I expect considerably better writing and analysis from the Jewish press. This is pap. But at least it isn't some judeo-christian babble which is so often preferred by these atheist poseurs.

[is_is]

. Jesus himself said that his return would be within the lives of 'this generation'.

Point me to where this was said....i want to look at it for myself.....thanks....

[Free the USA]

Good analysis

[DreamWeaver]

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Amen.

The " chosen people" were at that time in the OT, the chosen out of the pagan peoples. However, here is where discerntment comes in. The "chosen" are neither Jew nor Gentile ( Gentile= pagan at that time.) The chosen are NOW grafted in with the origianl chosen. We ( believers in Jesus) are chosen by Him, " the chosen", we did not choose Him but He chose "US". Faith is a gift, keep that in mind.

[Cu Roi]

But God also selected the entire house of Israel, which consisted of 12 tribes. The house of Judah (the Jews) make up only one twelfth of Israel. Why is the author unconcerned about other Israelites who may be under the same covenant to serve God?

Modern-day Jewry consists of all 12 tribes. In your Bible you will note that the area of Judah (southern modern-day Israel) was given to the sons of Judah and Benjamin. Levites were not given any territory but were set aside to serve as the priesthood. The nine other guys got (northern) Israel. So don't worry; everybody is accounted for.

[is_is]

Faith is a gift, keep that in mind.

Faith is a product of free will....Grace is the "gift"