The Next Reformation? 9.5 Thesis Posted on 'Church Door'!

9.5 Theses for the Next Reformation

Modern-day Reformers Post Document on 'Church Door'

We the undersigned, out of love for the truth and a desire to see all Christians honor and acknowledge all that God has revealed in his Word, submit these 9.5 Theses for your prayerful evaluation and participation with us in calling for further reform. May these theses be the spark that ignites the next Reformation of Christianity.

1. Everything Jesus said would happen, happened exactly as and when He said it would-within the lifetime of his contemporaries.

2. Everything every New Testament writer expected to happen, happened exactly as and when they expected it would-within their lifetime-as they were guided into all truth and told the things that were to come by the Holy Spirit (Jn. 16:13).

3. Scholars across a broad spectrum are in general agreement that this is exactly how every NT writer and the early Church understood Jesus' words. If they were wrong on something this important, how can we trust them to have conveyed other aspects of the faith accurately, such as the requirements for salvation?

4. No inspired NT writer, writing twenty or more years later, ever corrected their Holy-Spirit-guided understanding and fulfillment expectations (Jn. 16:13). Neither should we. Instead, they intensified their language as the "appointed time of the end" (Dan. 12:4; Hab. 2:3) drew near-from Jesus' "this generation" (Mat. 24:34), to Peter's "the end of all things is at hand" and "for it is time for judgment to begin" (1 Pet. 4:7, 17), and John's "this is the last hour . . . . it is the last hour" (1 Jn. 2:18).

5. Partial fulfillment is not satisfactory. 3 out of 5, 7 out of 10, etc., won't work. Partial does not pass the test of a true prophet (Deut. 18:18-22). Again, Jesus time-restricted all of his end-time predictions to occur within the 1st-century time frame.

6. God is faithful (2 Pet. 3:9) and "not a man that he should lie" (Num. 23:19). Faithfulness means not only doing what was promised, but also doing it when it was promised.

7. 1st-century, fulfillment expectations were the correct ones and everything happened, right on time-no gaps, no gimmicks, no interruptions, no postponements, no delays, no exegetical gymnastics, and no changing the meaning of commonly used and normally understood words. Such manipulative devices have only given liberals and skeptics a foothold to discredit Christ's Deity and the inerrancy of Scripture.

8. What needs adjusting is our understanding of both the time and nature of fulfillment, and not manipulation of the time factor to conform to our popular, futuristic, and delay expectations.

9. The kingdom of God was the central teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ, is a present but greatly under-realized reality, and must again become the central teaching of his Church.

9.5. We have been guilty of proclaiming a half-truth-a partially delivered faith to the world and to fellow Christians. We must repent and earnestly "contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3). If Christianity has been as effective as it has by proclaiming that Jesus Christ, the Messiah, came, died for our sins, bodily arose from the dead, and ascended to Heaven "at just the right time" (Rom. 5:6; Dan. 9:24-27), how much more effective might it be if we started preaching, teaching, and practicing the whole truth-i.e., a faith in which everything else also happened "at just the right time," exactly as and when Jesus said it would and every NT writer expected (Jn. 16:13). Dare we continue to settle for less?

Surely today, the words of Martin Luther, as he stood in defense before the Diet of Worms in 1521, are still applicable and compelling for the "always reforming" Church:
"Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures . . . and my conscience is captive to the Word of God . . . . I cannot do otherwise. "

Original Signatories

John Noe, President Prophecy Reformation Institute Indianapolis, Indiana Rick Chromey, Professor of Christian Education Saint Louis Christian College Florissant, Missouri
Edward E. Stevens, President International Preterist Association Bradford, Pennsylvania
Danny Griffin, President Carolina Christian Ministries Charlotte, North Carolina
John Anderson, President Lighthouse World Ministries Sparta, North Carolina
Walter C. Hibbard, Former Founder & Chairman Great Christian Books, Inc. Newark, Delaware
Mike Lightfoot, Pastor Father's House Fellowship Clarkston, Washington
Terry Siverd, Minister Cortland Church of Christ Cortland, Ohio
Kenneth J. Davies, President Grace Ministries Lemon Grove, California
Joseph Lewis, Pastor Fulfilled Bible Fellowship Delair, New Jersey
Jerry Wayne Bernard, Vice President Scripture Research, Inc. Riverside, California
Arthur J. Melanson, President Joy of the Lord Ministry Audubon, New Jersey
Jerry Hester, Pastor Dominion Community Church Greer, South Carolina
Terry M. Hall, Minister Miami Valley Church Beavercreek, Ohio
Gene Fadeley, President Anchor Publishing Charlotte, North Carolina
Rod Moyses, Manager M2ktalk.Com, (internet-satellite radio networks) Fresno, California
Stan Newton, Pastor Missionary to Bulgaria Seattle, Washington
Timothy R. King, Pastor Central Baptist Church Grand Junction, Colorado
Walter Koch, Pastor Emanuel Centro Christiano El Monte, California
Jack C. Scott, Jr., Minister Glacier View Church Kalispell, Montana
A. Wilson Phillips, Pastor Abundant Life Covenant Church Springfield, Missouri
Thomas A. Price, Jr., Pastor Sherman Community Church Sherman, New York
Don K. Preston, Minister Ardmore Church of Christ Ardmore, Oklahoma
David Curtis, Pastor Berean Bible Church Cheasapeake, Virginia
Jessie E. Mills, Jr., Minister Central Church of Christ Bonifay, Florida
Bud Fleisher, Host/Producer "Let's Talk Religion" (radio program) Clearwater, Florida
Ron Smith, President Friendship In Action (mission work in Mexico) Mission,
Texas Bill Clark Brumbaugh, Host Proactive News (nat'l syndicated radio program) Bozeman, Montana
James R. Hopkins, Minister Daleville Church of Christ Daleville, Alabama
William Bell, Minister Raines Road Church of Christ Memphis, Tennessee

Published by the Prophecy Reformation Institute: a conservative, evangelical ministry dedicated to continuing the Reformation into the field of eschatology-end-time Bible prophecy, and the International Preterist Association.

Books for the Next Reformation
· Chilton, David. "The Days of Vengeance." Ft. Worth, TX.: Dominion Press, 1987.
· DeMar, Gary, "Last Days Madness: Obsession of the Modern Church." Atlanta, GA.: American Vision, 3rd ed., 1997.
· *________. "End Times Fiction: A Biblical Consideration of the Left Behind Theology." Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 2001.
· Gentry, Jr., Kenneth L. "Before Jerusalem Fell." Atlanta, GA.: American Vision, revised ed., 1998.
· *Noe, John. "Beyond the End Times: The Rest of . . . The Greatest Story Ever Told. "Bradford, PA.: IPA, 1999.
· *________. "Dead In Their Tracks: Stopping the Liberal/Skeptic Attack on the Bible." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2001.
· ________. "Shattering the ‘Left Behind’ Delusion." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2000.
· ________. "The Israel Illusion: 13 Popular Misconceptions about This Modern-day Nation and Its Role in Bible Prophecy. "Fishers, IN.: PRI, 2000.
· ________. Top Ten Misconceptions about Jesus’ Second Coming and the End Times. Fishers, IN.: PRI, 1998.
· Otto, Randell E. "Case Dismissed: Rebutting Common Charges Against Preterism." Bradford, PA.: IPA, 2000.
· Russell, J. Stuart. "The Parousia." Bradford, Pennsylvania: IPA, 2002. Reprint of the second edition originally published by T. Fisher Unwin, in London, England in 1887.
· *Sproul, R.C. "The Last Days According to Jesus. "Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1998.
· Stevens, Edward E. "Questions About The Afterlife. "Bradford, PA.: IPA, 1999.
· ________. "What Happened In A.D. 70?" Bradford, PA.: IPA, 6th ed., 2001.
· Terry, Milton S. "Biblical Hermeneutics. "Eugene, OR.: Wipf and Stock Publishers, 1890, 1999.

* (top priority—read first)

FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT: John Noe Prophecy Reformation Institute 9715 Kincaid Drive Suite 1100 Fishers, IN 46038
E-mail: jnoe@prophecyrefi.org Ph.# 317-841-7777, Ext. 350 Fax# 317-578-2110

Edward E. Stevens International Preterist Association 122 Seaward Ave. Bradford, PA 16701
E-mail: Preterist1@aol.com Ph.# 1-814-368-6578 Fax# 1-814-368-6030

Be sure to visit our websites: www.prophecyrefi.org. Website: www.preterist.org.

_ Copyright 2001 by John Noe
All rights reserved. This material may be reproduced or transmitted by any means in any form, electronic or mechanical, including photocopy, recording, or any information storage and retrieval system, without prior written permission, but only in its entirety-i.e., both pages.

If you cannot reach a common consensus as to what truth is,then what good are ya?

Jesus was killed by majority rule....they thought they had the truth too Codie..and they did ..they killed it.

Does it bother you that Catholics can't agree on anything? Show me two Catholics who agree about anything. Show me a rank and file Cathlic who actually believes the Nicene creed. I know I am Catholic. I don't go to church anymore because I can't stand the priests who don't believe in Jesus and I can't stand that the "faithful" are so faithless. They think that all they have to do is show up on Sunday. Belief in Christ is meaningless to most Catholics. I believe the Bible and I believe Jesus Christ.

I went to a Catholic Church in which the pastor refused to say the apostles creed in the mass as it was too "divisive"

Most Catholics I know do not go to confession..do not pray roseries..do not believe the Pope is infallible .......the truth is most Catholics have not turned their brains off!!

Good to hear from ya today.

Likewise. I took my time reading this thread it is difficult to follow. Hope Adam and the family are alright. If all the people who have died since the early church have died in the condition of most modern Christians, were they saved?

If all the people who have died since the early church have died in the condition of most modern Christians, were they saved.

I hope this doesn't scare ya but:

The more I study our place in the new covenant, the more I agree with guys like gracebeliever. God's grace is sufficient. Only He can root out the abusers of it and I believe he does.
There are certain points where one can be "sincerely wrong" and pay the ultimate price, but how can you or I judge that?

You can see those who are truly seeking truth and those who are not.
There is still evidence.
A true Christian will not abuse grace, but God is the judge of the "abuse" button.

BTW: Adam is looking good so far. The "water on the brain" is very minimal, Suzie is feeling good today also. The Doc gave us some great hope for a healthy son in May. He may not be in what others call "normal" condition but I am praying for healthy. That is all I ask of God. The abundance of that request is up to him.

Abandoning historic premillenialism does not necessarily land you in full preterism.

(James Stuart Russell was a full preterist, i.e., he believed that the bodily resurrection happened and the Church was raptured in 70 A.D.

BTW: Adam is looking good so far. The "water on the brain" is very minimal, Suzie is feeling good today also. The Doc gave us some great hope for a healthy son in May. He may not be in what others call "normal" condition but I am praying for healthy. That is all I ask of God. The abundance of that request is up to him.

Good news indeed!

You can see those who are truly seeking truth and those who are not. There is still evidence. A true Christian will not abuse grace, but God is the judge of the "abuse" button.

Nate4 profile

I believe in "One Nation Under One God". Jehovah who sent his Son Jesus to die for our sins. He rose again on the third day and ushered in a New Covenant upon His return in 70 AD.

Uh, don-o regrets entering into this thread.

See y'all elsewhere.

This dude is bats.

Hypothetically speaking, an old country widow woman with maybe a bible and some ten person church. Not very literate, very loving and just a good person all around. Doesn't know a thing about the bible. Loves Jesus and sings in the Chior. Will she be saved.

I don't like these questions. I am not sure why you torture yourself with them. God saved YOU if YOU seek first the Kingdom!

BTW:
YES!
As far as I can tell from scripture, the Father loves us because we love His Son.

I respectfully recommend that you forget about whether this thing is preteristic or that thing is preteristic--and focus on what the 1000 years in Revelation 20 really is. That means that we need to figure out what the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20 really is.

(And I would not trust an RC priest to present it, RnMom.)

After I became convinced concerning the first resurrection, a lot of other things fell into place for me. I am now a partial preterist.

I don't like these questions.

LOL!

I am not sure why you torture yourself with them. God saved YOU if YOU seek first the Kingdom!

Maybe it's God doing the torturing?

BTW: YES! As far as I can tell from scripture, the Father loves us because we love His Son.

Then you just saved hundreds of millions of souls in every type of church in every type of doctrine. Then God will have mercy and no sense in striving or understanding Gods word. See where this goes? We are missing something really big here NATE IMO.

After I became convinced concerning the first resurrection, a lot of other things fell into place for me. I am now a partial preterist.

I kmow exactly what you mean. But, when I became convinced concerning the second resurrection, a lot of other things fell into place for me. I am now a Moonie.

After I became convinced concerning the first resurrection, a lot of other things fell into place for me. I am now a partial preterist.

So far, it is salvation and those who actually raised with Christ after His first resurrection.(Matt 27)
I believe it is the one spoken by Christ Himself to Martha when He raised Lazarus "...though he die, yet shall he live!"

Then God will have mercy and no sense in striving or understanding Gods word.

No Sir.
I believe this attitude is a sheep vs. goat attitude. Those who hold it will wake up surprised.

God's salvation is not of works, but faith. Salvation itself is simple.
But true salvation brings forth works!!
Not because we are trying to earn it, or because we are trying to "get it right."
But simply out of LOVE for the one who gives an "undeserving" soul, rest from the "law of sin and death."

God will bring you into the 7th day, my friend. I will pray for it.
I NEVER knew grace or peace until this hit me:
I am undeserving, unsaveable, unforgivable. I am disgusting in His holy eyes.
I have probably harmed or stumbled more than I have encouraged.

BUT HE WON'T LEAVE ME ALONE!!!

He loves me anyway.
Why?
I cannot answer that question. Never will. But His Spirit has given me unrest in my sin, to the point where I found rest in His grace.
It is the 7th day.
It is freedonm from the Law
It is what the first century Christians longed for.

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