Posted on 01/03/2002 3:41:25 AM PST by dtom
The best way to challenge something is to make a broad statement that is totally unsupported by any facts and then base your argument on that broad statement. By the time people are finished with your argument, they forget that you never supported your underlying thesis.
I am not Roman Catholic and I'm not sure the Bible mandates celibacy for the priesthood. But, considering the large number of priests and the very small number of ordained pedophiles I am sure there is no basis in the above assertion. I have never heard that the ratio of pedophile priests is higher than the ratio of pedophiles in general. But to accept this author's point, you would need to believe it was. I am sure that a pedophile priest is more newsworthy than a pedophile in general so it can seem that becoming a priest makes one a pedophile.
Of course, we're also not evaluating how many priests engage in illicit adult heterosexual activity. That's because the author has an axe to grind.
If the Catholic church needs to take action, it needs to do a better job of protecting its boys from the few priests who do fall in this manner. It also needs to provide better help to the priests who believe they are falling - to let them know they can request help without fear of reprisal and receive the full forgiveness of Jesus so they can get on with their lives.
Of course, the Church needs to make sure she believes the requirement for celibate priests comes from G-d. But if she is sure, then she needs to stand by what G-d has said no matter what idiots like this author believe.
Shalom.
You are operating under the assumption that the liberal bishops actually want to have "a large jump in the number of active priests in the West." This is a naive view.
The "shortage" of priests we have is largely by design. Seminaries have been turned over to feminist agitator nuns who have an agenda of "priestesses" to support. Conservative, orthodox young men are routinely screened out before admittance as "too rigid" to be good pastors. Those who lie their way in, often find themselves persecuted for such sins as Eucharitic Adoration or, again, "rigidity" in adhering to Church Dogma.
The solution is not to open up the priesthood to those who left it because of sexual desire, but to pray for a Pope who will clean out the decaying corpus of the "Spirit of Vatican II"
SD
Nah, this one's a no-brainer. Besides, I might say something vaguely controversial. And I wouldn't want to start a ...
Is there such thing as a CINO? If so, Mr. Glazov is surely one.
Shalom.
And, of course, the answer to her question is that they can't. Sure they can quote the Bible. They can tell you how the Church interprets the passage, how they themselves interpret the passage. But good advice is a sharing of experience and as long as clerical celibacy is the rule Catholic clerics will not be able to give good advice on most of the problems people face.
And, of course, the answer to her question is that they can't. Sure they can quote the Bible. They can tell you how the Church interprets the passage, how they themselves interpret the passage. But good advice is a sharing of experience and as long as clerical celibacy is the rule Catholic clerics will not be able to give good advice on most of the problems people face.
Aha! A valid scientific proof for an unsupported proposition.
Please don't take up research, sid. Anecdotal evidence is not rigorous at all.
And, for just one anecdote, been there...done that...no strange thoughts and no illegal behavior. See, I rule over my sex drive, not the other way around. That's what makes me human.
But anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything, does it?
Shalom.
My understanding is that this depensation is available to this generation only. The Church does not want to have men skirting the discipline of the Church by becoming Epsc. and then changing to RC.
Great point, there have never been any divorces or affairs or nepotism among the Protestant clergy to give scandal to the Protestant churches ever.
Catholics do not deny harsh realities. Here's two things I have been studying lately:
Do you have some evidence for that? When I read the dispensation, I don't recall a time limit.
I guess we must abandon the prohibitions against sex before marriage too, in your warped world view? Seems most folks don't marry for 2 to 3 decades after birth. They must all be insane by then, by your logic.
Why did your family really leave the Church?
The idea that only a married man with kids can give Christian advice is the exact type of thinking that leads women to believe that only a woman can act as a therepist to women, blacks to believe that only a black can represent blacks in Congress, etc.
It is repugnant to the idea that we are all formed in the image of God.
SD
It's interesting to note how the Church is skating around the edges of the celibacy rule.
As has been mentioned, Anglican and Episcopalian men who convert to Catholicism are dispensed from celibacy. We've got five of them in our diocese here in Texas, and they are among the best preachers I've ever heard.
A little known practice that has occurred at least three times that I know of in the Diocese of Dallas and is about to occur in Fort Worth is the return of priests who left to marry but who are now divorced from their wives. None of these men (and I know two personally) sought laicization, so their marriages were never recognized by the Church.
Once they dumped their wives, or their wives dumped them, they petitioned the bishops to return, and they have returned to their former dioceses. This is all done with the full blessing of Rome.
OTOH, men who did the proper thing (as I did) and sought laicization (I was ordained a transitional deacon) will not even be considered for even the permanent diaconate.
Celibacy of course has nothing to do with pedophilia, or pederasty, or sexual deviancy. The Church has the right to demand celibacy if it wants to.
But the Church is also limiting the selection of candidates for the priesthood to men who feel called to celibacy, an admittedly small number.
The real tragedy of celibacy is that celibacy excludes a large number of men who might make exemplary Roman Catholic priests but will not consider it.
Unless, of course, they are Episcopalian, or are former priests who've failed as husbands and know they'll be welcomed back to the priesthood.
Should the Church exclude those men who indulge their sexual desire but are welcomed into the priesthood after conversion from Anglicanism?
Should there be any bending of celibacy whatsoever?
Perhaps my saying "indulge their sexual desire" was rash. I wasn't speaking of one such as you, or another I saw here, who left before being ordained a priest, recognizing that celibacy was not for them. I was speaking more of actual priests who leave the Church to marry.
Having once made a vow to God and then surrendering it, is not the type of person that should be making vows anew. If this is not the situation originally referenced, then I apologize for the confusion.
My beef, then is not with men who enjoy marital sex, but those who choose this after already vowing not to.
Should there be any bending of celibacy whatsoever?
I would not want the Church to be seen as bending to pressure, especially that from the priestess agitator types. Bending or eliminating the celibacy rule for the purpose of "eliminating pedophilia" or homosexuality is a pipe dream of this author. I would not have a problem if the rule were changed for good pastoral reasons, but I have not heard those yet. I would rather see the shrews in charge of the seminaries and the limp bishops they supposedly answer to be disciplined.
Let's try orthodoxy first. It just might work.
SD
Oh yeah, let's follow what this guy has to say. Commie bastard.
I've met Dan Michalski, the author of the first, at some confab a couple of years ago. He was talking about Pederasty then, too. He was one of those incensed that Rehkemper was trying to build an expensive school against the wishes of the parishoners at All Saints>
Rehkemper's the one who had to resign as pastor of All Saints AND as Vicar General of Dallas when, after he was asked by a reporter about the Rudy Kos case, said "Those boys were as much to blame as Fr. Kos was."
The poster boy of insensitivity.
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