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The Israel Problem: Why We Should End The Welfare
self | 12/30/01 | Rick Fisk

Posted on 12/30/2001 9:36:17 AM PST by Demidog

Arguments over Israel and support of Israel are extremely contentious.

Support for Israel runs the gambit from those who support them, to the extent of wanting them to be an extension of the U.S. in the middle east, to those who are anti-Semitic and would like to see Israel destroyed.

Of course there is some middle ground, but in general the arguments about how the U.S. should treat Israel in the context of our broader foreign policy decisions is generally framed with opponents accusing each other of one extreme end of the spectrum or the other.

Hidden amongst the rhetorical rubble of these combative arguments, is the unanswered question which I believe is the core issue regarding Israel and U.S:

Who gets to decide the fate of Israel?

Is it Israel? Or is it the foerign policy wonks of the U.S. who are more interested in U.S. interests than those of Israel?

Staunch supporters of Israel would like to have their cake and eat it too. They would like the U.S. to continue to send billions in foreign and military aid, and yet butt out of Israel's own foreign policy decisions. Those on the opposite end probably want the same cake: U.S. support ceases and is over-run by her enemies.

If Israel lobs a missile or plants a booby trap that kills Palestinian children, the arguments flare up again and those who do not support Israel (like the so-called "Amen-Corner") perceive such incidents as license to condemn Israel and question U.S. support. While the "Amen-Corner" fights tooth and nail sometimes even ignores real attrocities or blames the victims of those attrocities in order to keep the pressure on to continue aid to Israel.

But it's a losing proposition for both sides.

Those who support Israel to the extreme do not get what they want because U.S. foreign policy is not concerned at all with what is in the best interests of Israel. It is concerned with U.S. interests. And those who do not support Israel (for whatever reason) do not have a choice. They must support Israel because they cannot direct their tax dollars away from Israel.

The money and aid that the U.S. sends to Israel has strings attached like all welfare programs foreign or domestic. Israel will never get to fully direct its own foreign policy as long as it is required to cowtow to U.S. demands. And it will always have to cowtow to U.S. demands as long as the U.S. government is providing the aid.

The right thing for Israel to do, if it is interested in becoming truly independent is to reject that aid. But this is easier stated than put into action.

Israel could no more reject American aid than a heroin addict could stare at a fresh fix and walk away.

The relationship between Israel and the U.S. is viewed by some as necessary to bring stability to the middle east. But the relationship is not healthy. It is marred, and more resembles a pimp/hooker relationship than two friends who are trying to help each other.

I have said on more than one occasion that our support of Israel is not moral. But this is not quite accurate. It isn't the support itself that is immoral. It is the forced nature of the support that is immoral combined with the U.S.'s insistence that control be associated with that support.

Those Americans that do not wish to support Israel should not have to do so. Just like none of us should have to support a family with our labor via Section 8, welfare programs or public schools, we should also not have to support another nation against our will.

Those who wish to support Israel with their taxes should be allowed to send as much as they wish. And I would venture a guess that the support Israel received from private citizens would far surpass what is given now (12 dollars or so per taxpayer).

And furthermore, how much sense does it make for the U.S. to send aid to both Israel and the Palestinians or Jordanians or other potential enemies of Israel against the wishes of those who support Israel?

It doesn't at all. That is why we must stop foreign aid to Israel and leave it in the hands of our private citizens. Of course, combined with this must also be the end of the Income tax. Ending the Income Tax would free the American people to support whomever they wished, foreign or domestic, without strings and without government control.

Since when is the U.S. as a nation qualified or even authorized to decide what is best for any nation other than the U.S.?

Since.....never.

And the added benefit to such a solution is the immediate calming of the rhetoric and the elimination the perceived problem with those of us who want an end to U.S. managed support of Israel: coersion.

There is nothing wrong with supporting Israel. It should not be forced at the point of a gun.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
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To: Buckeroo
I am interested in your recitation of the Isreali Constitution.

The Israeli Constitution , as you well know, or would not have asked, is still in progress. It is more or less complete, but since Israel has no idea to this day what its actual borders are or will be, it can't be completed since it deals with the right to own property and other such details. I could paste the entire document here, but you don't really care, do you? All you want to be able to say is that Israel has no FORMAL Constitution. That is only true so far as *formal* and its interpretation, like ours, is done by the Supreme Court.

401 posted on 12/30/2001 9:00:30 PM PST by Nix 2
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To: Nix 2
Isreal has no Constitution. Thank you.
402 posted on 12/30/2001 9:01:49 PM PST by Buckeroo
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To: Demidog
The "right-wing" (as the U.S. media calls them) in Israel opposes continued American aid. Bibi is among the forefront in this regard.
403 posted on 12/30/2001 9:06:01 PM PST by montag813
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Probably 'cause they ain't surrounded by 400 million angry Arabs. You might recall that when Briton was threatened (WWII) that Roosevelt sent them everything but Eleanor.
404 posted on 12/30/2001 9:07:25 PM PST by xzins
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To: xzins
Oh? I'm not so sure that Britain isn't being invaded by its own contingent of angry Arabs. Better send them some free fighting machines too.
405 posted on 12/30/2001 9:12:06 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Nix 2
I could paste the entire document here, but you don't really care, do you?

Sure we do, Nix. Send it on over. We're all waiting.

406 posted on 12/30/2001 9:14:43 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Ridin, you're just arguin' now. You know the Brits aren't in danger of being swept into the sea in the way that Israel is.

Just look at the map, my friend. Historically, Israel is at the crossroads of numerous of the world's greatest empires. They all wanted that piece of real estate. Why? Strategic location.

And it is for us, too. And a friend occupies it.

407 posted on 12/30/2001 9:15:30 PM PST by xzins
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To: Buckeroo
Isreal has no Constitution. Thank you.

Neither does Great Britain. What's your point?

408 posted on 12/30/2001 9:17:54 PM PST by dell Arpa
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To: xzins
No, I'm not just arguing. I can't see the 'historical' significance of the 'crossroads' having anything pertinent to do with today's issues. I'm wondering how angry you'd be TODAY if your family's generations old home was bulldozed to make room for new immigrants and you were made a refugee in your own country.
409 posted on 12/30/2001 9:20:57 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: dell Arpa
Let's place the point far from your inferior mind. LET'S JUST PLACE YOUR MIND AS A method that government enjoys. Pay your taxes and don't complain. Never complain as governent is here to help you. Reap the advantages.
410 posted on 12/30/2001 9:25:06 PM PST by Buckeroo
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To: xzins
Thank you for the cordial conversation, but I must take my leave now. We may disagree about these things, but you've been civil about it and I appreciate that. Good night.
411 posted on 12/30/2001 9:27:58 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Buckeroo
Let's place the point far from your inferior mind.

Are you this rude to everyone you meet, or am I just lucky?

LET'S JUST PLACE YOUR MIND AS A method that government enjoys.

I think I'll need someone's English-to-English translating skills to understand this sentence.

Pay your taxes and don't complain. Never complain as governent is here to help you. Reap the advantages.

You see, I have no problem paying taxes, as I have something called 'the right to vote.' Remember "No taxation without representation"? I have representation, therefore I accept taxation.

Aside from such stellar advice, what was your point concerning Israel's lack of a constitution?

412 posted on 12/30/2001 9:39:11 PM PST by dell Arpa
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To: Buckeroo
PLEASE! If you must bash Israel in every post you make, can you at least SPELL it right?
FYI, Israel has never had respite from wars declared since her rebirth. What would you know about living under constant threat of annilhilation and trying to adhere to all the principles of democracy at the same time?
I will tell you. Nothing. Nothing at all. So your simple statement that Israel has no Constitution is only a partial truth, and it is because of the absence of any responsibility to their own people by the Arab Nations that Israel remains precarious and under a constant state of alert that would paralyze most countries. Yet they still have the most open and free society in the entire Near East, and when, not IF, but when, their position is secure, they will have a *formal* Constitution and be hated even more for their success.
413 posted on 12/30/2001 9:40:48 PM PST by Nix 2
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To: Nix 2
I am going to kick your ass. Let's say that everything you sAY is true. Let's say that you are a messenger about GOD. Now convince me.
414 posted on 12/30/2001 9:44:40 PM PST by Buckeroo
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To: dell Arpa
Isreal has no "right to vote". So what are you talking about?
415 posted on 12/30/2001 9:47:35 PM PST by Buckeroo
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To: Buckeroo
Wrong.

Section 5 of Israel's Basic Law: The Knesset:

Every Israel national of or over the age of eighteen years shall have the right to vote in elections to the Knesset unless a court has deprived him of that right by virtue of any Law; the Elections Law shall determine the time at which a person shall be considered to be eighteen years of age for the purpose of the exercise of the right to vote in elections to the Knesset.

Section 6 of Israel's Basic Law: The Government:

Persons entitled to vote in the elections to the Knesset shall be entitled to vote in the elections for the Prime Minister.

416 posted on 12/30/2001 9:55:53 PM PST by dell Arpa
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To: dell Arpa
So why do they play a game of administration? Tell me more.
417 posted on 12/30/2001 10:00:44 PM PST by Buckeroo
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To: Buckeroo
So why do they play a game of administration?

What do you mean? Coalition governments and the like? I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.

418 posted on 12/30/2001 10:02:48 PM PST by dell Arpa
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To: StoptheDonkey
That was part of our world wide treaties signed in the Cold War days to prevent nations from going to the communist's side. The treaties we have are enforcable in world courts and we would look bad in not honoring them. In the future if we backed out nobody would trust us again.
419 posted on 12/30/2001 10:04:47 PM PST by A CA Guy
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To: dell Arpa
yeah.

I am wondering why I talk to folks like you on FR. I fucked up on this channel. I should have never been here.

420 posted on 12/30/2001 10:09:26 PM PST by Buckeroo
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