$350 Billion in Subsidies to US Farmers

Scoop Media ^ | 13-12-01 | Maree Howard

[Blunderfromdownunder]

Hey dewd, learn some reading comprehension. THe article is from an NZ source, quoting the amount in NZ dollars, and specifying that it is to be spent over 10 years. I would rate it against your trash opinion any day.

[Blunderfromdownunder]

I would have no idea who runs it, but if you visited the site you might note that it carries opinion pieces, press releases and news from the loony left through hardcore libertarians and conservatives, and corporates

[Blunderfromdownunder]

How original...Charmed to make your acquaintance

[shaggy eel]

,,, probably the same group of farmers who know just when to buy and sell the Kiwi dollar each year as our export season gears up and slows down. A mix of subsidies and currency futures would mean you'd farm from the desk in your study as you stir the ice cubes in your gin.

[Red Jones]

obfuscation has become an art form ... of course the 350 billion dollar figure is ridiculous, the article threw the number around and they didn't tell us over what period of time. These figures should always be expressed in an annual basis, but they are not so that they can confuse us.

I believe that the total money paid to farmers every year by the fed guv is around 15 billion a year. It has gone up dramatically over the past 5 years.

One reason for this happening is that the farmers have had a very tough time of making it lately. Many of them are millionaires on paper, but they've borrowed on all their assets, making very little and in a precarious situation. I don't think it's in our interest for them to go belly-up en masse myself.

I believe also that this 15 billion number includes the money for purchasing food that we simply give away to certain charity cases like North Korea. We actually give North Korea 2-3 billion dollars worth of food every year now.

A better way to ensure our farmers' viability is to throw a large tariff on the imports from nations such as China that don't buy roughly as much as they sell to us. As China sells 7 times to us as they buy from us, then if we were to throw an outrageous tariff such as 150% on their products until the situation changes, then they would move quickly to buy a lot from us so that they could also sell to us. This would be a lot better than relying so much on subsidies.

Alan Keyes supports the farm subsidies and I agree with him on this.

[Blunderfromdownunder]

Thanks for your comments, addressing the substance of the issues as they do (unlike some).

[Blunderfromdownunder]

Shaggy, when were most of our farm subsisdies done aways with? I am just a young-un so I didnt take much notice of politics and news before 1990 or so

[donozark]

This article does what is known in the trade as "front-loading." Putting key points author wants readers to walk away with in first paragraph. Last paragraph then says "...is planned to stand for ten years." A common thing for journalists to use. Even over 10 years, figure given is misleading. This bill includes many, many areas not directly related to DIRECT payments to farmers.

Main thing to carry away, is the idea that US farmers sit on their asses and collect big checks is foolishness. As I said, less than 40% of farmers receive subsidies. Many of those are corporate big boys and wealthy individuals who using farming as a tax write-off, additional income, etc.etc. "The Government loves farmers." True here, and all over the world for that matter.

We must be doing something right though, America feeds the world. Obesity is HUGE problem in our penal facilities. Young children in US are now being counseled re:overeating/proper eating (to avoid obesity). From Afghanistan to the Serengeti, to the homeless shelters in America's inner-cities, it's US food, grown by US farmers.

[Centurion2000]

Trade delegations in Washington admitted defeat yesterday in their efforts to stop the U.S. from handing more than $350 billion in subsidies to its farmers.

This guy is smoking crack .... 350 billion dollar is about the equal to 70 aircraft carriers. Not even a state full of Monica's would have gotten that much money from Clinton.

[Blunderfromdownunder]

No obfuscation, for those willing to read the article (and all my subsequent comments) the subsidies are over ten years and are in NZ dollars because its a NZ soure ceporting. The amount is reported in toto for 10 years (rather than in an annual chunk) because this is how spending bills tend to be written. As for your poor, inefficent American farmers, they should get over it...If they cant make a go of it on their own by becoming more efficient, by diversifying etc etc they should get out of the business and not rely on government handouts to support them; that is what a market economy is all about. THats what NZ and to a lesser extent, Australians farmers have had to do over the last 15 years, resulting in the leanest and most efficent agricultural industries in the world.

[shaggy eel]

,,, Roger Douglas (under the Labour govt of the day) started his economic reforms around 1984. Never, ever has there been a time like it - I recall around 1987 that I was making a fortune on stocks here BUT and that's a significant BUT - you couldn't lose any way you looked - debentures were running @ 17 - 19%!!!

However, farmers were walking off their farms of course. We now have nothing subsidised in agriculture.

Just thought I'd tell y'all too that our Prime Minister got a $NZ12,700 pay increase today. Trying to work that one out.

[Blunderfromdownunder]

You are corect about the front-loading of course, buts thats how all journalists play. But the article isnt more than a few hundred words long, and even the most dull and stilted indivudal should surely be able to get to the end of it and pick up the ten-year period. This came from Scoops breaking news section, and isnt meant to be and in-depth piece; those should follow in tomorrows NZ business sections, which I will post if they appear.

[Red Jones]

very interesting article you posted in #8

I wish our urbanites would understand that maintaining a good strong agricultural community in the rural areas is important to our nation.

[Blunderfromdownunder]

Come on dewd, all the other MPs got a raise as well and they arent exactly complaining. Lets refresh shall we, MP salaries are set by the independent Higher Salaries Commision. Michael Cullen tried and failed to tie MP salary increases to the average yearly wage increase. You spin with the best, Shaggy ;-)

[donozark]

Maybe 10 years in NZ. But not in US and article was directed at US farmers. Projections of cost may be spread over ten years, but when have they ever been accurate?Which, incidentally, you know little about. You are an admitted socialist. You post from a socialist rag. That's enough for most here.

As for "poor inefficient American farmers?" You don't know squat! WE (USA) even feed countries we are bombing! We fed countries we were at war with-N.Korea. We do it all. Sorry, I can live without kiwis and wool.

[Red Jones]

yes, Blunder, you're right it says 10 years at the end of the article;

The large majority of world's nations either protect or subsidize their agriculture industries, I believe virtually all of them do. Everyone wants to protect their ability to produce food.

Also, a lot of this money must be for the grain purchases they do to give away grain as charity to North Korea and others.

[shaggy eel]

,,, maintaining a broad base is important to your nation. Farm what is needed, reducing subsidies gradually and buy in what you can't produce efficiently or in terms of superior quality.

I'll buy a PT Cruiser once chilled lamb exports to the continental US start to rise better than they are now. Sadly, the US and NZ were overridden by a WTO action in Australasia's favour in this regard - I would have actually preferred and cherished a US/NZ negotiated initiative to WTO involvement.

[shaggy eel]

,,, Clark got a raise of $NZ12,700 pa and the average Labour voting family is at least $NZ30 per week worse off since she took the wheel. Spin that, honey!

[Blunderfromdownunder]

Everyone is worse off at the moment dewd, its whats called the "Global Economic Slowdown/Recession". Everyone's talking about it, havent you heard? And again, MPs hav eno control over the setting of MP salaries