Posted on 12/06/2001 6:35:33 AM PST by blam
SUNDAY DECEMBER 02 2001
Genetic survey reveals hidden Celts of England
JOHN ELLIOTT AND TOM ROBBINS
THE Celts of Scotland and Wales are not as unique as some of them like to think. New research has revealed that the majority of Britons living in the south of England share the same DNA as their Celtic counterparts.
The findings, based on the DNA analysis of more than 2,000 people, poses the strongest challenge yet to the conventional historical view that the ancient Britons were forced out of most of England by hordes of Anglo-Saxon invaders.
It suggests that far from being purged and forced to retreat into Wales, Cornwall and Scotland when the AngloSaxons invaded in the 5th century, many ancient Britons remained in England.
The study, conducted by geneticists at University College London, found that as many as three-quarters of the men tested in some parts of the south of England have the same Y-chromosome as the ancient Britons or Celts, rather than that of the Anglo-Saxons.
Overall, the scientists found that between 50% and 75% of those tested in parts of southern England were directly descended from Celts, implying that they had survived the Anglo-Saxon invasion. In Scotland the proportion of those with Celtic ancestry was found to be little different from the population of southern England.
"The evidence is quite strong that there is a substantial indigenous component remaining in England," said Professor David Goldstein, who led the study. "Genetics has opened up a powerful window on the past. We can now trace the movements of peoples and address questions that have proved difficult to answer through history and archeology alone."
The study, commissioned by BBC2 for its current Blood of the Vikings series, was designed to assess the impact of Norwegian and Danish Vikings, as well as Anglo-Saxons, on the British population.
Researchers took swabs of saliva from 2,000 people in 30 locations around Britain, and from 400 people in Norway, Denmark and Schleswig- Holstein, the area in northern Germany identified by the team as a homeland of the AngloSaxons. Those taking part had to have lived in the area for at least two generations.
Scientists then examined the Y-chromosome, which is passed unchanged down the male line of a family and is thus not altered by intermarriage.
The analysis showed that 60% of the men tested on Orkney were descended from Norwegian Vikings, as well as 30% of those in the Hebrides. While the Viking influence in these areas has been well known, it had been suggested that they were simply a ruling elite who did little interbreeding with the local population.
On the mainland, the survey found that 70% of those tested in York were from the continental European groups rather than the indigenous population, suggesting that the Anglo-Saxons made more of an impact on the Celts in northern England.
Only 10% of those tested in Wales were of Anglo-Saxon origin, confirming that it has retained an almost exclusively Celtic population.
In recent years the fate of the Celts in England has become hotly debated. Many historians have come to doubt the traditional story about the flight of the Celts from southern England, which was based largely on the account of Gildas, the 6th-century historian.
"There are various schools of thought ranging from near genocide (of the Celts) to almost total survival," said Patrick Sims-Williams, professor of Celtic studies at the University of Wales. "There could have been mass flight as well — it’s partly a matter of scholarly fashion, coming and going from generation to generation."
The genetic data will be eagerly received by scholars. Many of the place names in southern England have Celtic origins. Among them are Leatherhead, in Surrey, which meant "the grey ford".
"If you believe Gildas, the Anglo-Saxons would have been chasing the ancient Britons, catching up with one who wasn’t fast enough and saying, ‘Look here, before I cut off your head, just tell me the name of this place’," said Dr Margaret Gelling, a leading authority on place names.
Interesting.
True, if you confine your "research" to People Magazine.
That would be the Straights of Gibralter.
Try adding something constructive to the discussion. At this point you look quite out of place.
Also, doesn't this entire study seem rather flawed? The researchers did genetic testing on randomly chosen people from different parts of the UK and the European continent. Their conclusion is that because some Celtic gene patterns are found in people now living in southern England, the Celts must not have fled to the hills.
Isn't it at least possible (if not probable), that some of the Celts may have moved back, say by 1950 or 1960, maybe to work in London or some other town, and bred there?
The Japan Times September 15, 2000 Human artifacts found at bottom of Black Sea Evidence of disastrous flood 7,000 years ago may coincide with Bible story of Noah WASHINGTON (AP) Artifacts and an ancient building found at the bottom of the Black Sea....
http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news210.htm
That's what I thought. WAAAAAAAY too far back to be the Celts. But the Black Sea story of the flood is a fascinating one. Anxious to see what the Nat Geog will do with the film they are making.
Yup, me too. I have a wheelbarrel full of wood that has been dated at 7,000 years old. A couple years ago I had documents of authenticity made up and laminated, then I attached the laminated document to a sample piece of the wood with a gold chain and gave that as a Christmas present. On the backside of each document I placed a list of well know events, etc. such as:
This wood is: X older than the pyramids of Egypt, X older than Jesus Christ, and so forth. They were well received.
So, do you have any insight or even speculation about who were/are the mummies out in the Tarim Basin near Lulan/Urumchi in east China? They are Celtic, 6-7,000 years old.
You may already be a member. lol.
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