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To: nicmarlo
Aren't quote wars fun? I have more too, as you no doubt have, but I'll declare a unilateral cease fire on that part.

I'll concede that most weren't deists, but a side point is that the most important of them, especially the central drafter Madison and the man with his right ear, Jefferson, were. Others professed Christianity, but did not really practice (actually, I think this is as many today are), or were Unitarian.

Others, of course, were devout Christian of some demonination or another. These people did try to insert a weaker 1st amendment that only required no state-established church, but that was rejected in favor of a more separating version.

I will also concede, to an academic extent, that this nation has some Christian ideals built into it. Given that religion is usually closely tied with societal rules, the Fathers had no choice but to include religious concepts. I will also put forth that the Christian ideal is absolutely not democratic and does not favor the freedom of the individual that this country is based on should it be used as the basis for a political system.

I still hold, however, that despite the individual religious views of the Fathers, all but with a few exceptions saw the mistakes of religious/government entaglement, saw the mistakes of a religious power having secular power, and decided that this country would be founded without any such entanglement in order to preserve the religious and secular freedoms of the people.

The "wall of separation" text was written by Jefferson (yes, I know it's not in the Constitution, as I previously posted) was, believe it or not, in the context of meaning greater religious freedom for religious people -- Baptists in this case. They were being persecuted by the state-sanctioned Congregationalists, and wanted to know if they would continue having the state religion forced upon them. In his letter, Jefferson said, basically, matters of God are personal and that the state should have no say at all in them.

227 posted on 11/21/2001 4:58:36 AM PST by Quila
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To: Quila
aren't quote wars fun? I have more too, as you no doubt have, but I'll declare a unilateral cease fire on that part.

As will I.

despite the individual religious views of the Fathers, all but with a few exceptions saw the mistakes of religious/government entaglement, saw the mistakes of a religious power having secular power, and decided that this country would be founded without any such entanglement in order to preserve the religious and secular freedoms of the people.

And to this I will also agree. :)

228 posted on 11/21/2001 5:03:35 AM PST by nicmarlo
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