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William Cooper, national militia movement leader, killed in shootout with law officers
Arizona Republic/AP ^ | 11/6/01 | Mighty Mouse

Posted on 11/06/2001 9:00:49 PM PST by Mighty Mouse

Edited on 05/07/2004 5:20:47 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

EAGAR - A national leader of the militia movement has been killed and an Apache County sheriff's deputy wounded in a shootout, authorities said.

William Milton Cooper, 58, of Eager, had hosted a talk show broadcast on the Worldwide Christian Radio out of Nashville, which receives it via phone from his home in St. Johns. He had millions of listeners worldwide, including Timothy McVeigh.


(Excerpt) Read more at azcentral.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: williamcooper
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To: Diddle E. Squat
You wrote: You don't need a driver's license to travel, just a thumb or money for a bus ticket. Driving(only around for about a century) is a priveledge, not a right.

"Driving" is a commercial activity and can be regulated. On that you are correct. "Traveling by car" is not commercial and as long as title to car is in your personal name (and not registered to the state) can not be regulated.

Besides, those roads are built and maintained with federal taxes, so if you aren't gonna pay your taxes, don't use the roads!

Wrong. Roads are maintained by state and federal gasoline taxes, not by federal income taxes. Besides, the roads are just improvements on right-of-ways that have existed from time immemorial and are vital to right to travel.

Papers? A driver's license and soc. security is about all I ever need, downright comes in handy sometimes. Neither seems overly repressive to me.

Hello? have you heard of the plans for a National ID CARD? Biometric technology? Face and retinal scanning? Chip implanting under the skin (digitalangel on the internet - look it up)? Even now, the states are implementing a national drivers license convention.

But I'm also not a delusional paranoid spooked by the thought that each passing tumbleweed is actually a jackbooted govt thug in disguise. Pay my taxes ontime, too. They are way too high, but I don't get trigger happy around law enforcement just because of that. But perhaps you are asking me to try and understand the "root cause" of these nutball's anger? Do you want me to "try and understand why they hate the govt so much"?

No, sir, I dont want you to try and understand anything. Just open your eyes.

41 posted on 11/06/2001 10:10:10 PM PST by DrLiberty
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To: Diddle E. Squat
None of us hate government, We Hate Big government. What is wrong with that? I don't mind paying taxes or even having a driver's license. What I resent is my tax money going to foreigners and people that hate us and will continue to hate us because we have the money to give them which makes them aware that they cannot or will not create their own wealth.
Do my beliefs offend you, if they do, why? Do my beliefs deserve an insult? I repeat, we hate BIG government and government interference into our private lives, our educational sytems and whatever else is none of their business as long as we are not interfering with anyone else.
42 posted on 11/06/2001 10:10:22 PM PST by poet
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: philman_36
How is the rest of the Squatt family doing?

Mighty kind of you to inquire. Unfortunately, most of them don't seem to know me.

As to the Caesar quote, perhaps I went over the heads of a few literalists. Basically all I was saying is that we should try and adhere to the law of the land. If it is unjust, try and change it. If it is oppressive, that's another matter. But I'm sorry, a drivers license and the federal income tax are not oppressive. Onerous, overdone, and irritating, but not oppressive. IMHO, these militia knee-jerk chicken littles seem to adopt as a hero any renegade who the govt is against, whether just or unjust, without exercising sufficient judgement. To me that is no different from the Black community failing to differentiate between MLK and OJ.

44 posted on 11/06/2001 10:12:29 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat
If it is unjust, try and change it.
That is the same as telling someone to change the odds at a gambling casino. If the intent is to profit nobody in the casino is going to change it for you to win.
Kind of like sitting down to play with a card shark only you don't know that the dealer is a card shark and the guy to your right is in on it too.
Would you please not sit to my right...
45 posted on 11/06/2001 10:21:47 PM PST by philman_36
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To: KneelBeforeZod
No. Though 97.2% of users here probably won't take me seriously anyway, so... :)/:(
46 posted on 11/06/2001 10:21:59 PM PST by Gaytriot
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To: 2sheep; DrLiberty
My new favorite line from DrLiberty: When will fools like you ever pick up a book?

I wonder if the neighbor who alleges Cooper was threatening with a gun is the same neighbor who alleged the guy in California was telling people he was a federal marshall, and the next thing he knew, he was shot dead and his house was burned to a crisp.

47 posted on 11/06/2001 10:23:47 PM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: Justin Thyme
you wrote, First off, going of facts of this incident alone, and those that directly surround it...there were multiple attempts to arrest Cooper with lawfully issued warrants. He evaded or talked his was out of custody each time. The warrant he was being served with was for threatening a neighbor with a gun. On his radio show, he said something to the effect of "if they ever come for my guns, I'll be waiting for them", which pretty much sets the tone and rules of engagement.

Gee, you think after Waco and Ruby Ridge, law enforcement might have a clue.

Regardless of whether he was right or wrong in his beliefs, the way in which our goverment changes is through law...court cases for precedence, and Constitutional ammendments if warranted. If he had such crystal clear "proof" that the IRS was a sham....allow yourself to be put on trial, get the facts out to the world and the press, win the trial, and that sets the stage for the proper legal changes to the system.

That's just what he tried to do. Unfortunately, the government would not allow him to do that by preventing him to adequately put on his case. Funny how all those government types don't like you messing with their cash flows.

I'd be very interested in the sources for this info. I see no mention to the "inalienable right to travel" in the Constitution. Although the Declaration of Independance is the only document of the like which uses the words "inalienable rights", it makes no reference to travel. Therefore, it has to be precedential law you're referring to.

I admit I don't have the sources handy. But there are many and they do apply to autos. Both the Declaration and Constitution don't mention "right to travel" because it was so well established in the English Common Law (which our system was based upon) that it was not needed to be stated. Look it up.

Also, I don't see how a drivers license hinders a "right to travel", if it does exist.

A license by definition, is the authority to do something whihc would be otherwise illegal. Now if youre talking about an 18-wheeler hauling commerce, thats one thing. But my own personal body, that's another.

Cooper's right to travel has been terminated by the authorities, without due process.

48 posted on 11/06/2001 10:24:13 PM PST by DrLiberty
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To: Diddle E. Squat
As to the Caesar quote, perhaps I went over the heads of a few literalists.
BTW...you didn't go over my head. I understood exactly what you meant and were doing.
Basically all I was saying is that we should try and adhere to the law of the land.
I believe you were trying to do more than that.
Crack that whip!
49 posted on 11/06/2001 10:24:17 PM PST by philman_36
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To: DrLiberty; poet; Faith_j
This is exactly what I meant in my previous post about knee-jerk reactions, and jumping to conclusions. When did I EVER advocate the death of this man? I said that he was no hero, and provided reasoning for THAT statement. Who says that I am not against big govt, much less for it? But I AM for exercising discernment. Adopting as heroes for our cause dangerous houligans who scoff at most law is no different than a Democrat rallying behind Bill & Hillary Clinton. Sell your soul and destroy the moral basis for your movement.

Wrong. Roads are maintained by state and federal gasoline taxes, not by federal income taxes

That's why I said federal taxes, not federal income taxes. I'm well aware of the difference, which is why I didn't use the word "income".

Besides, the roads are just improvements on right-of-ways that have existed from time immemorial and are vital to right to travel.

I kinda doubt that very much of I-635, the Capitol Beltway, etc. were built on ROW existing from time immemorial, or even 100 years ago.

Who said I'm in favor of a nat'l ID card? I don't want fingerprints, either, if you were waiting to throw out that accusation.

50 posted on 11/06/2001 10:26:23 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat
I'm well aware of the difference, which is why I didn't use the word "income".
Parsing...and I must admit you are quite good at it.
51 posted on 11/06/2001 10:29:24 PM PST by philman_36
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: philman_36
Sorry, I could tell from the start that you got it, the literalist crack was aimed at the larger audience.

As to cracking the whip, I confess that I was not in that Devo video from the early '80's.

53 posted on 11/06/2001 10:31:30 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

To: Demidog; Diddle E. Squat
Didn't you know Diddle E. Squat knows all about nuts.
He even knows about nutballs!
I don't think he is a shrink, though I've not asked either.
Diddle E. Squat are you a shrink or do you just know nuts?
55 posted on 11/06/2001 10:34:01 PM PST by philman_36
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Sorry, I could tell from the start that you got it, the literalist crack was aimed at the larger audience.
Sorry, I don't believe that either.
That is my right though isn't it.
56 posted on 11/06/2001 10:35:46 PM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36
Ah, its always a little embarrassing to be caught parsing in public(at least when ladies are present).

From across the blazing campfire, did I just hear, "I think you've had enough!"

57 posted on 11/06/2001 10:36:15 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat
I wrote: Wrong. Roads are maintained by state and federal gasoline taxes, not by federal income taxes

You wrote: That's why I said federal taxes, not federal income taxes. I'm well aware of the difference, which is why I didn't use the word "income".

Now I see why you so admonish worship to Caesar. Your legalistic maneuverings are of the same highly refined caliber as our public officials. Perhaps if youre not one already you should apply. Anyone can make it these days.

We were only contesting federal INCOME taxes! Which makes you "dishonest" for not admitting you were wrong. That's why I'm not calling you an "idiot" - because I to am well aware of the difference, which is why I didn't use the word "idiot".

58 posted on 11/06/2001 10:37:18 PM PST by DrLiberty
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To: Diddle E. Squat
From across the blazing campfire, did I just hear, "I think you've had enough!"
I was hoping for "one more for the road", but yeah, "burnt" marshmallows are not nearly as tasty as "toasted" ones.
The "road trip" worked well for you.
59 posted on 11/06/2001 10:40:46 PM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36
I am not a shrink, but I shrink in cold water(which could drive me nuts, in the wrong situation of a different lifestyle). Don't shrink from a good argument, though some combatants prove tough nuts to crack.
60 posted on 11/06/2001 10:41:27 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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