Pentagon halts the advance of fighting women

The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 11/02/2001 | Toby Harnden

[Orion78]

Gender equality is for arenas where the genders are, in fact, equal. Combat isn't one of them.

Fighting for your freedom is.

[VaBthang4]

I didnt make any assumtions about what you do or dont know...

I would rather say that the Marine Corps has handled it the best.

They didnt change the way they operate.

Women still train separately and the line units remain all male combat billets.

[ChemistCat]

Plenty of strong, capable women are, right this very minute, defending these guys' butts from a real threat while they're sitting at a computer squeaking out about physical strength, endurance, and bare feet.

[A. Pole]

denying someone the right to fight for their freedom

The women who really want to fight for freedom do not need permission, the definition of special human right and the support from Equal Opportunity government. In Poland there were many such women for example in the Warsaw upprising when the Polish Home Army fought uneven battle against German army for 2 months of the 1944 summer. The same women would consider modern feminist crap as crap.

[Anamensis]

many (not all) many woman would say things like "we need to think about peace now" or "we dont want more people to die" or "waht if questions "

Well, but... women like that don't generally join the Army. Those who were steaming mad and lunging for the nearest red button (like someone in my life--ahem) are the ones who join. It's true that most women aren't cut out for it. But the few who are, I want them to be able to help out in some way. And shoot, I'd LOVE to see Bin Laden executed by Ann Coulter, in her shortest skirt, with lots of hair-tossing first. (-:

[VaBthang4]

...and none of them will be on the ground when the bullets fly.

Reality.

[ChemistCat]

[this_ol_patriot]

If a woman choses to join the military and fight for her freedom (or for whatever reason), she should be allowed to do so.

Just so it's explained what an all male enemy can do to her if she is captured, that would include all forms of rape, mutilations, slavery and becoming pregnant with the enemies child.

There will be no special treatment beyond normal operations to recover her or bargain her back, as far as the military is concerned she is just another soldier. She must be able to meet all the requirements expected by males in the same job. No special rules or regulations will be put in place. She will eat, bathe and sleep where ever the soldier in the field does those things.

She must know that she may be called on to sneak up behind an enemy, grab him by the head pull out her knife and cut his throat, she will have to be able to shoot the enemy point blank without thought or hesitation, she will have blood and guts all over her when a mortar shell possibly kills the soldier next to her. She must be told that she can die.

She must also be told of the very important role women played on the homefront during past wars and that she may be more valuable at home than abroad. She must also be told that there are very important non-combat positions in the military for women which are just as important or even more important than a single soldier.

With these realizations and the many more horrors of war in mind, if she still thinks she wants to be a frontline soldier then more power to her.

[Orion78]

"Perhaps if we taunt it, it will become so cross it will make a mistake..."
Time to put on my asbestos suit and prepare for the onslought. By wish, I meant choose, but I should have double checked before I let loose with the flamethrower. I appologize.

[ChemistCat]

[VaBthang4]

No apology required.....the foundation from which you debate this topic is flawed so I expect you to make mistakes.

[Castlebar]

argue specific circumstances all you want but the fact is, denying someone the right to fight for thier freedom because of thier sex is wrong any way you cut it.

It's also wrong to shoot a burst of of automatic fire into another person. Our infantrymen do that in cases where it is the least evil of all posssible options. That's what the military is about - not making thing fair, or making things nice. It's about making things dead.

If one woman of outstanding abilities was to be assigned to a fast attack submarine, that submarine's combat readiness would be diminished, because the indescribably complex synthesis of small unit cohesion would be irreparably damaged, and no amount of Civil-Rights whining or psycho-babble can alter that ugly fact.

[VaBthang4]

Wow....a chic looking at a missile....

Did you have any photos of a female gutting an Iraqi?

How'bout one carrying around an Iraqi republican Guard members head on her humvee?

[OldEagle]

It's like this. War isn't like a politically-correct sporting event and being a grunt in combat usually requires more physical strength and endurance than most women have. It is a fact that most of our military physical requirements have been reduced so women can participate, but we probably will not be able to get Osama et al to respect the reduced standards.

[ChemistCat]

But is your position, "Women shouldn't be in the military at all" or "A single woman on a submarine is trouble"? Mine is somewhere in between.

Israel had to fight for its existence from the day the UN voted to recognize it. Arabs swept down upon the fragile cities, colonies, and kibbutzim with armor and infantry as modern as anything we had at the time. Israel didn't have the luxury of keeping its women and children off the front lines. Women and children were ON the front lines from the getgo. Yep, they were raped and slaughtered by the enemy. (I might add that men aren't exempt from rape and warcrimes.) But they fought. Adolescent girls were out there side by side with men, trying desperately to build roads to get supplies to Jerusalem before the end of a cease-fire. Women carried rifles on their backs and toddlers on their hips. They fought for each other and for their new nation. Nobody who knows any history of the Middle East could think that women can't fight if they have to. I'd just as soon not see American women and children in combat, but make no mistake: firearms are a potent equalizer. A bullet from my gun will kill an enemy just as dead as a bullet from yours, and if I'm fighting for my babies I am pretty sure I'll be considerably more dangerous than you will.

[VaBthang4]

[GeekDejure]

Plenty of strong, capable women are, right this very minute, defending these guys' butts from a real threat while they're sitting at a computer squeaking out about physical strength, endurance, and bare feet.

Oh yeah ??? Well, it just so happens that I WANNA BE "barefoot 'n pregnant" !!! But all you wanna do is spoil all my fun . . . don'tcha, ChemBabe ???

[Orion78]

"Plenty of strong, capable women are, right this very minute, defending these guys' butts from a real threat while they're sitting at a computer squeaking out about physical strength, endurance, and bare feet.

Reality.

[Sci Fi Guy]

When I went through basic training we had an all female platoon in our company. One day when we were marching to a rifle range, they had us double-time it. When we arrived at the range, we noticed that the entire female platoon had drop out of the run.

When I was getting out the Army I failed a PT test. I felt embarassed, ashamed. A couple of my female Army buddies were talking about how well they did on their PT tests. My failure outdid their excellent scores.

If the Army would be allowed to have normal training instead of the current watered down version. And Women were required to meet the same standards as the men. There wouldn't be any debate about women in combat, because so few women could make it.