Nuclear Threat within US Possible (My Title)

FoxNews | October 30, 2001

[PrivacyChampion]

FOX NEWS just reporting that there is a potential risk of a nuclear terrorist attack against the US, maybe within the Continental borders with a 'dirty nuke' that has been smuggled across the Mexican border.

This is the threat that AG Ashcroft warned about yesterday.

[Travis McGee]

The problem with your scenario rebutting the ex-soviet tac nuke artillery shell being turned into a backpack nuke is that without a doubt part of the price of purchasing it would include detailed schematics and conversion instructions.

After all, the Russian is (hypothetically) being paid millions of dollars.

Not to mention, the jihadists have scads of MIT trained EE's to take on the task.

[Travis McGee]

[MizSterious]

"We either kill them, or identify and destroy their hope. What is of value, something they really care about."

Mecca and Medina?

[Travis McGee]

The Dome of the Rock was THE great Jewish temple (not one of several holy sites) for thousands of years before Mohammed cut off his first infidel's head.

Ask yourself this:

WHY was the Dome of the Rock put on the Temple Mount? Just a coincidence? Nice view? Or to obliterate Judaism?

[ChemistCat]

That's what it comes down to. We need to make it clear that if Islam cannot police its own, they are NOT gonna like what the West will have to do, to do it for them.

[Sans-Culotte]

Notice that it came in across the Mexican Border, the one Bush wants to keep open? Does that mean we in Texas are gonna be dirtied by this?

I gotta say, it looks like Bush and Co. are losing this war. As has been said on other threads, screw the "hearts and minds of the Islamic people" war, we're not gonna win that one anyway. I think this war is way bigger than Republicans and Democrats, and I am one Republican who is quite capable of not marching in lockstep with every decision made by Bush, Powell, et al.

[Poohbah]

Don't be too sure about detailed schematics and conversion instructions--probably no one's ever seriously considered it. As for MIT-trained EEs, the problem is that nukes demand a certain amount of "hardness" in their electrical and electronic components (mostly against gamma and alpha emissions, but some neutron emissions are very bad news for solid-state devices as well). Hardened electrical and electronic components have an incredibly tiny market (measured in the tens to hundreds of units for a given item) and any purchase is noteworthy.

Our MIT EE may or may not have a detailed understanding of this issue (I came across it only because of concerns about Navy SATCOM systems being hard enough to withstand the latest solar flare peak), and may choose to ignore those nagging worries in order to not draw attention to his effort ("Ten rad-hard circuit cards, destination Peshawar, Pakistan--nothing suspicious about this order"). Maybe 8 times out of 10, he's OK. Allah be with him when he's working on backpack bomb number nine, because the odds won't be :o)

[ChemistCat]

So. The Pentagon is taking suggestions. How many have you contributed? Total war has been declared on us in a complicated and unprecedented way. If you have The Solution, please enlighten us. Many of us have opinions about what W ought to be doing, but we sure as heck don't have all the information W has.

[snopercod]

This could further explain why some of the prohibitions are in place on private pilots and flights over heavily populated airspace.

Robert, Robert, Robert. You're needlessly stirring up the hysterical FReeper crowd who lately seem to be thinking with their ovaries rather than their brains when it comes to airplanes.

In the first place, around most cities, the VFR ban has been lifted, with certain exceptions on news and traffic helicopters, blimps, and banner-tow planes. (That they left the restrictions in place on those three should tell you something, especially since Bush will be in a sports stadium this week.)

In the second place, have you ever considered what a "dirty nuke" might weigh [including all that lead shielding to protect the terrorists], vs. how much cargo that little Cessna can lift off the ground? For most "puddle-jumpers", can only carry a cargo fuel/passengers/baggage of...say...600 to 800 pounds. Even with a light fuel load and one pilot, they can't carry much of a load. Not nearly enough for any kind of a "device".

Think about whether you would use a Motorhome or a Cessna 150 for such a mission.

[Dirk McQuickly]

How can you say we are losing this war? What kind of timeline do you live your life on? Because one month is hardly long enough to start whining that we're losing. Usama and Omar are hiding in a cave. I'm going about my business.

We're winning.

[GretchenEE]

I must say that the first thoughts on my mind when I awoke this AM were prayers for Americans' safety against attack, and they were much "weightier" than what I've experienced on the terrorist issue. Prayed that Americans in denial will wake up to the dangers; that bin Laden didn't stop planning just because we declared war on him ... that the West Coast is vulnerable (many think it isn't because it hasn't been hit as the East Coast was). Prayed confusion on the enemies of Americans, and fear that they are serving the wrong god; fear that they won't get their "rewards" and therefore, will be afraid to carry out suicide missions ... and I keep praying that everything possible will be done to disclose who the planners are and disrupt / overthrow their plans before they can succeed.

The main reason I'm writing this is to convey that this is the first time since 9/11 I have had this heavy of a burden to pray against further attack. I feel a weight in my spirit; a deep need to keep praying, almost a shakiness in my spirit, the latter of which is not usual for me at all.

[DreamWeaver]

What bothers me and I have thought about is that in the sick mind of their way of thinking, they would rather die as a martyr and go to paradise than from natural causes. There has been talk of Bin Laden having a kidney disease.

Well, just perhaps if he is ill enough and facing death, he would rather go down setting the world on fire with Nukes if he has them, and God Forbid ,resort to it in his final days. God Forbid. Just my thoughts, see how paranoid I am getting ? How far my mind is reaching ? Sheesh !!!

[ChemistCat]

Me too, sister.

The fat lady doesn't even look like she feels a song in her heart. It's far from over. God save the USA.

[Poohbah]

I guess my point is, ultimately, that while this may be a worry, I'm somewhat MORE worried about those backpack nukes--no need to worry if your MIT-trained EE is up to snuff or not (hey, warped thought--maybe he was an affirmative action graduate :o)

Suitcase nukes would have a much better "Oobie." (That's computer industry slang for OOBE, "Out of the Box Experience." A good Oobie lets you just plug the thing in the wall and fire it up, while a bad one requires you to have a PhD in electrical engineering and ANOTHER PhD in software engineering to get the infamous C:>_ on your screen :o)

[MizSterious]

They seem a lot like brain-washed cult members--similar to the bunch in California who suicided as a means to visit their "space ship." They fully believed in all they were told by their "leader," even when friends and family tried to reason with them. Reason had already departed, and soon these people did too. The Taliban and other terrorist organizations seem so very much like the same sort of thing.

[ChemistCat]

If only the liberals and treehuggers would wake up and see that Western Capitalism isn't a fraction of the threat to the environment that third world terrorists are. We could use a little waking up on that side of the nation. So could the whales and bunnies.

[Travis McGee]

Points taken. I hope you're right, you make a good case.

[Robert357]

Some of the other posts have talked about ex-soviet suitcase nuclear bombs and others have talked about back-pack-convensional explosive-inside-radioactive waste bombs that work by contamination.

The backpack-contamination bomb would not weigh alot and to contaminate the largest area would be desirable to explode at a high altitude.

I doubt that a suitcase real nuclear device would need to be beyond the weight limit you suggest as lead shielding would only be required if the terrorist was not suicidal. Again, it could fit in a plane.

Your comment about thinking with their ovaries, was great. I enjoyed the humor. Sorry about that. As to the World Series, yes that would be symbolic. I sort of wonder if Bush Sr. at the Sears Tower yesterday and Bush Jr. tossing out the pitch at game 3 are baiting traps? Good observation.

I will lay off discussing private air craft anymore.

[Poohbah]

Well, like I said, I look for simplicity here. Rewiring a nuke ain't that simple, and the penalty for an oopsie is kinda extreme. A possible scene follows:

Affirmative action MIT grad: "OK, Omar, I cut the left wire?"

Somewhat smarter MIT grad: "Right."

AAMITG: "Oh...cutting the right wire."

SSMITG: "NO, CUT THE LEFT WIRE, YOU CAMEL-FORNI--"

(Cave, occupants, and everything within 1,500 meters disappears in a blinding white flash.)

Remember, this is the group that had a guy guy blow himself up by accident with his own grenade.