"Muhammad, Islam, and Terrorism" The Ugly Truth about Islam

Answering Islam ^ | September 12, 2001 | Bob Glenn

[freefly]

Since it appears you didn't get past that line,
you appear to be a bit dim yourself.


Never mind.
Ignore the point.
Cheer the deaths of innocents because they are Muslims.
Pat yourself on the back and call yourself a "good Christian".
And try to think of yourself as different from those that cheered the fall of the trade center.

[Francohio]

Freefly, you are young, and what American education you have had, has indoctrinated you with the belief that both sides of the question are equally important, and that one man's religion is as good as the next. You are a fine upstanding, Rotarian sort of hail-fellow-well-met, and probably believe you wouldn't intentionally harm a flea. We should all be calm and discuss this in good fellowship, as we decide how to invite the members of the Elks to the Moose Lodge picnic.

When you "read", some more about Islam, here's what you are going to find out:
There is no denying several of the basic, and troublesome tenets of Islam. To do so is utter idiocy and ignores the violent history of the movement.

As to racism, Islam is not a race. Indeed, Islam has used violence to convert nations and tribes of every race, as different as the Sudanese and the Albanians. Indeed, a unifying factor amongst these disparate peoples is the violence they bring to their unconverted neighbors.

I am not speaking of some medieval episode, Freefly. It is happening now in Kosovo, in Macedonia, in the Phillipines, in East Timor in Indonesia, and most clearly of all, in The Sudan. As I type, Muslims are killing, starving, torturing and enslaving Christians in the southern regions of The Sudan. Elsewhere in the world of Islam, aid workers and missionaries are imprisoned.

Where, oh where is the voice of "moderate Islam," to condemn these unspeakable atrocities? Where is the voice that could have called the authorities about the WTC terrorists in their American Muslim midst? There is no such voice, because there is no such thing as "moderate Islam."

[Leisler]

I have read the Koran, but only once and a long time ago. My impression that I have held was that it was a fine book and no more hateful than the old testament. The old testament has been refered to as the Hebrew bible. It seems to me that people will do what they want and use a text as justification. Books are just dead wood.

[Leisler]

Your argument can further be browken down to between Prostant and Catholic nations. Red off?

[freefly]

First, I want to thank you for your calm and reasoned response.
Too often threads of this nature degenerate rapidly.
I'm not all that young.
I spent my time in the Army back in 82, and that not in a support role, I was in the Ranger Bn...hardcore individual combat oriented.
I understand what you refer to when you point out some of the tenates of Islam that can be used to justify violence, oppression, etc. My point being that a person can do the same thing using the Christian Bible (Old Testament in particular).
In fact, step back just a short time and you can see Christians (rather: Christian "leaders" and politicians) doing just that.
It doesn't happen here and now (at least not very often, and then it is usually rightly condemned), but it HAS happened and occasionally still does.
Are there Muslims engaging in terrible acts?
Certainly! In a LOT of different places.
Do we see oppression on a lot of other levels using Islam to justify it?
Certainly!
But what I see as the cause is NOT the religion itself, but rather the people in charge,
the "leaders", using the religion as a tool of propaganda and control.
It is very similar to the way Christianity has been used in the past.
Christians rose above it. A lot of Muslims have too.
And I HAVE seen Muslim leaders condemning the actions of the terrorists.
Unfortunatly it doesn't make as good a shot on tv as extremists talking hate.
I see a focus on "it's the Muslims doing this" that takes people's eyes away from the policies and political decisions that led up to it.
The terrorist's leaders are all in power as the result of the help of too many of our politicians.

[freefly]

"It seems to me that people will do what they want and use a text as justification."

That is what I see happening with Islam.
The "leaders" of that country use it to manipulate their people.
They can avoid responsibility by using G*d or Allah as the "heavy".
It's been done before.
It's ugly whenever you see it.

[freefly]

"The truth is that Christianity promotes freedom and prosperity;"

True. Now. But NOT so very long ago Christian leaders did a lot of very ugly things and used religion as their excuse.
Torture, keeping people under control for the powers that were, keeping people in poverty, etc.
We like to try to forget about that, but it IS true...
Dirty hands should not be pointing fingers.

Islamic doctrine promotes oppression and poverty.

No. Not true. Some very ugly people ARE currently using Islamic doctrine to do just exactly that...
religion IS a VERY effective way to oppress people.
But saying that the religion is to blame is avoiding the real source of the problem.

"There are fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Moslems-- which advocate terrorism?"

Some fundamental Moslems DO advocate terrorism.
Some Catholics are engaging in terrorism as we speak.
Some Protestants are too.
Technically, so are some Jews.
If you take a look at the religious writings, and look at the actions of some of the practitioners,
you can come to the SAME conclusions about Christianity or Judism as you can about Islam.

That, combined with truth, half-truth, and generalization is EXACTLY how the Taliban
is able to convince people that Christians are evil and need to be taught a lesson.
It's very similar to what I read in this article and those like it.

[Tailgunner Joe]

bttt

[My Favorite Headache]

BTTT

[Tailgunner Joe]

bttt

[Listen121]

I HAVE SEEN THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN. WHERE PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET MAKE UP LIES. ALL HE HAS SAID IS UTTER RUBBISH.
I ASK EVERYBODY TO GO AND FIND THE BOOKS THEMSELVES AND SEE IF THE ABOVE MENTIONED STUFF IS IN THEM. YOU WILL FIND IT IS UTTER RUBBISH. EVEN THOUGH ALL THIS RUBBISH IS OUT THERE IT IS STILL THE FASTEST GOING RELIGION IN THE WORLD. THAT IN IT SELF SAYS SOMETHING. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

READ THE TRUTH FOR YOUR SELVES ...

NEVER PLEAD IGNORANCE

[Whitewasher]

Is this your only post, Osama?