OF course, you don't know this because you have failed to educate yourself as to the history of Ukraine.
Your knowledge is limited to Russia invaded Ukraine."
Nonsense, but "Russia invaded Ukranie" is the only history that matters right now, everything else is totally irrelevant.
What is especially irrelevant is the Russian propaganda version of "the long history of Ukraine."
None of the evil deeds of Russia against Ukraine, i.e., the Holodomor, provide justification for Vlad the Invader's actions now.
Robert DeLong: "At least that is the knowledge you telegraph to others, because you never mention these facts of their history.
The other option is, that you know their history, but are purposely ignoring it, because it doesn't help your arguments."
What true history supports is Ukrainian independence, period.
There's no reason why any Ukrainian would want to be part of the monstrous Russian Empire.
And I suspect, you don't really know the true history because you've been drinking Russian propaganda Kool-Aide so long you think it's factual, right?
Robert DeLong: "Since you are cheerleading the continuation of the conflict, for Ukraine, I would have assumed that more than a year into this conflict, you would have at least grasped that the 8 years of attacks upon the Russian speaking Ukrainian citizens, in the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine, that you would know that the reason for those attacks were perpetrated upon them for the crime of speaking Russian."
That is a complete 100% Russian propaganda Kool-Aide drinking lie, and you should well know it.
The truth is over half of Ukrainians speak Russian, including the president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
So language has nothing to do with it.
Helping Russia wage war against the Ukrainian government has everything to do with it.
Robert DeLong: "For a Ukrainian, the spelling is of Kyiv is of utmost importance to them.
Well, at least for the Nazi faction at any rate.
BTW, I speak neither Russian nor Ukrainian languages either. But curiosity made me seek out why I kept seeing two distinct spelling for Ukraine's capital, and most populous, city."
The names and spellings of many places have changed since I was a boy learning geography.
In this case, "The Ukraine" is now just Ukraine, and other names have changed too, i.e., Stalingrad and Leningrad.
I do my best to keep up with the latest, but really don't care that much about it.
And you calling Ukrainians "Nazis" is just an expression of your own total, complete abysmal ignorance of real history and your mind besotted-drunk with Russian propaganda Kool-Aide.
Robert DeLong: "There have been two [invasions], Georgia & Ukraine.
Georgia was to quell violence along Russia's border, and I read once that the president asked Putin to intervene.
But that's all unimportant, because Russia is still a regional power."
And right there is where you mind slips from semi-conscious into a drunken Kool-Aide propaganda induced stupor.
First of all, no president asked Putin to invade Georgia, that's insane to suggest it -- unless, of course, you are referring to then Russian President Medvedev, but that would make you not just insane, but also dishonest to the core.
Your words, "Russia is a regional power" give Vlad the Invader no right -- none, zero, nada rights -- to invade his neighbors, especially on trumped up pretexts.
Robert DeLong: "The Last Time the U.S. Invaded Mexico"
1913!! and that was provoked in a way Russia was never provoked in either Georgia or Ukraine.
Plus, Russians have threatened most of their neighbors at one time or another since 1990:
- Azerbaijan (1990-1994);[1][2]
- Moldova (1992–present);
- Georgia (2004–present);
- Lithuania (2006);
- Estonia (2006–2007);
- Poland (2006-present);
- Belarus (2007);
- Ukraine (2014–present);
- Syria (2015–present);
- Turkey (2015–2016);
- Kazakhstan (2021-2022);[3] and
- Armenia (2022)[4] amongst others.[5]
If you can't refrain from propaganda, and stick to facts, it only reflects poorly on your ability to deal in facts.
Probably because facts are not a strong point of yours, but propaganda is the go to for you without a doubt."
More nonsense, because Vlad the Invader is absolutely 100% Stalin's love-child, and grand-love-child of the old imperial Tsars from Ivan the Terrible to Peter the Great, Putin idolizes them and copies their behavior.
Vlad is no child of Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin, he is in no way a Jeffersonian liberal democrat (small "l", small "d"), rather, he is a Russian imperialist in the mold of the Tsars & Soviets.
Robert DeLong: "Why must we assume that what happened between to ruthless leaders, now links to a completely different leader?
Do you always just throw feces against the wall, to see what might stump me?
This is a perfect example where assuming, only made an a$$ of you, because I played no part in making such an assumption."
Did you suddenly forget your own argument?
I'll remind you:
- Robert DeLong post #177: "What makes you think Putin was trying to conquer Ukraine?
Putin even said himself that he was sure that western Ukraine would be much happier under Polish control. "
I simply reminded you that Hitler's agreement with Stalin over Poland DID NOT mean either dictator had given up all other territorial ambitions, nor should we assume that if Vlad divvies up Ukraine with Poland, that is the end of Vlad's territorial ambitions.
Robert DeLong: "Just proves that either your comprehension skills are sorely lacking, or you are intentionally lying.
Of course it could be both.
What I said is that we have been weakened by a totally inept & corrupt administration... "
Right, those are your words, not mine.
I merely translated them accurately to mean: "you've propagandized us already into a second-rate power, incapable of arresting murderers until we've arrested all our own jaywalkers! "
We said the same thing, in slightly different words.
Robert DeLong: "You tacitly support this administration by siding with their getting this nation involved in this conflict, not to diplomatically stop the aggression, but to perpetuate it, because they wanted this conflict.
He's destroying our economy, allows foreign invaders to waltz right in, while at the same time hollowing out our military.
None of which concerns you or the other cheerleaders.
You must be either a RINO, or someone who desires to see this country destroyed.
Oops, I kind of repeated myself, because the two examples are the same thing when you look into the, with a determined investigation."
And here, for emphasis, you repeat the idiocies in many more words -- you claim we cannot help defend Ukraine until all our own Democrats are defeated in elections, removed from power and replaced by not just Republicans, but non-RINO Republicans.
That is not going to happen, ever, and did never happen in any previous US war against a foreign power.
The one time it did happen, the Civil War, we certainly do not want to repeat today.
Our current Obama/Biden Democrat administration is, by nature, thoroughly corrupt and corrupting of anything they touch.
This may, or may not, include our aid to Ukraine, I've seen no evidence one way or the other.
But at least some aid is going there and that has demonstrably helped slow & delay Vlad the Invader's progress of conquest across Ukraine.
But you frequently suggest that if we just let Vlad conquer Ukraine, then we can somehow defeat Democrats in elections here at home.
I think that is such mind-numbing stupidity it's beyond all rational comprehension.
Robert DeLong: "No, we do not have the plants we used to have in this country pre WWII that were able to be refitted to build war material needs, but again it surprises me not, that you think it would be possible.
It would take tons of investment.
Since we do not have the cash on hand it would require printing of money.
But with the economy in shambles and inflation becoming a real threat, that printing of money would only spark hyper-inflation to kick into overdrive."
Anything is possible, given good leadership -- budgets are balanced by reducing wasteful spending in one area to free up money for more vital projects, like national defense.
It is not a problem if leaders are willing to sit down and make hard choices.
I think there are $trillions of dollars in wasteful government spending which could easily be diverted to existential matters like national defense.
So your argument here is nullified by common sense.
Robert DeLong: "Read up how strong Argentina used to be, and what a shambles it is in now.
Even though they have oil reserves, they aren't able to pull themselves out of their dire situation."
Argentina has been an economic problem-child, if not basket-case, for as long as I can remember.
They are living proof that whatever the Left touches they corrupt and eventually ruin.
The US was never that bad, until 2021, and hopefully the 2022 elections will begin to correct the worst of Democrat excesses.
Robert DeLong: "Only in your weak uniformed mind did my statements, which you didn't bring forth, support your arguments in any way, shape, or form."
Naw, you posted a long series of statements, in your own words, which can rather easily translate to my words.
So, I didn't repeat them because there was nothing for me to disagree with.
The fact that you fail to see the areas where we agree speaks loud volumes about your own lack of understanding.
Robert DeLong: "DJT is not a Republican, he's a strong leader who ran for office on the Republican Party ticket.
He did so because he realized that the people who would support him vote Republican.
He's been a supporter of both parties throughout his life.
But is you are so a staunch DJT supporter, why are you then going against his advice that we stop supporting Ukraine?
I think you use claiming to be a DJT supporter as a Trojan Horse cover to hide who you really are."
That's total rubbish because Trump certainly is a Republican, he is the leader of Republicans, both officially and by poll results.
Trump defines what the word "Republican" means, he is the gold standard by which we can measure all others claiming to be Republican.
God willing, Trump will be our president in 2025 and with a Republican congress will begin to correct the worst of today's government abuses.
Most Republicans have supported US aid to Ukraine, including Trump, who is understandably frustrated since he would have prevented Vlad's new invasion and can end it.
So, for now, what most Republicans want is that a) 100% of the aid goes to Ukraine and not be siphoned off by political corruption and b) the aid should be enough to help Ukraine actually defeat Russia, not just slow them down.
As for your alleged "Trojan Horse", I have no idea what that might mean to you, but if you read my profile, I have not changed even one word of it since originally posting in circa 2004.
Robert DeLong: "So, if you are who you claim to be, then you will immediately cease supporting Ukraine, to assist him upon his return to the presidency, by giving him more to work with, instead of less.
Just as Ukraine's Zelenskyy refused to help Trump, the integrity of Ukraine will not help him either.
It might be different if we win, but we are not in it to win.
Time for you to start seeing that reality.
If we were in it to win, we would have immediately started ramping up the weapons creation, that you think is an easy-peasy accomplishment to achieve quickly, by starting that 2014 when they made the decision to engage in this proxy war with Russia."
Just to be 100% clear, those are your words, not mine, even though you posted them as if quoted from me.
My words are these: we should do whatever we can to help defeat Vlad the Invader in Ukraine until the time when Pres. Trump can negotiate an end and settlement to that conflict.
Robert DeLong: "Bottom line is, that you are looking at the past and saying it can be done now, but it's an incorrect belief, for many reason.
The nation is not even a close resemblance of what it was 80 years ago now.
You are living in a fantasy world totally divorced from reality.
Just like making everyone winners, doesn't really make them winners.
They are only being propped up, but reality shows them what they really are, eventually."
Naw, the pure fantasy is your claim that the US is weaker today than we were 80 years ago.
In fact, we are infinitely more powerful and capable.
The difference is relative -- in 1945 the US GDP was around 40% of the world's total output, while today we are perhaps 25% and both China and the EU each rival our GDP.
We may still be the first among equals, but we don't stand alone as we did in 1945.
But we still have huge advantages over China and the EU, advantages which can still make us world leaders, if we want to be, and we should want to be because the alternatives are not nice to contemplate.