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Rethinking Citizenship— Should Born In The U.S.A. Be Enough?
American Thinker ^ | 01/11/2022 | Anony Mee

Posted on 01/11/2022 7:57:40 AM PST by SeekAndFind

There are two main paths to acquiring citizenship in the United States and a few minor ones. The first is to be born here. The others are via legal immigration, birth abroad to a U.S. citizen, and certain adoptions.

Then there’s birthright citizenship, which is recognized in only 25 countries, 13% of the nations on earth, and all but three of them are in the Americas. In recent years, France, New Zealand, Australia, and Ireland have abolished birthright citizenship.

The US-born children of foreign diplomatic officers are not eligible to be citizens. Citizenship is currently granted, however, to all other children born here to foreigners, about 10% of the close to 4 million births here in 2019.

About a quarter of these are the children of Chinese and other-nationality women engaged in “birth tourism.” They constitute a growing group of American citizens with no connections to the United States, its people, culture, or dynamism, other than their return ticket to their home country after having been born here and a U.S. passport. The other three-quarters are born to illegal aliens, more than likely to parents living in fear while striving to stay under the DHS radar—not a particularly healthy relationship with their country of residence.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: citizenship
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To: Trailerpark Badass

“LOL, “sacrifice?” WHat in Afghanistan or Iraq was worth one free individual’s limbs or lives?”

I didn’t mention anything about Iraq or Afghanistan. You sure you’re responding to the right post?


101 posted on 01/14/2022 1:19:37 PM PST by MercyFlush (DANGER: You are being conditioned to view your freedom as selfish)
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To: Cboldt
By that standard, the entire human race is subject to the jurisdiction of the US.

If they are in the U.S., with certain exceptions, yes. They are subject to our laws. They violate those laws while here then they can be arrested and go to trial. Likewise the whole world, with certain exceptions are subject to the jurisdiction of the UK or France or India or China if they are in those countries. Do you know know what 'jurisdiction' means?

102 posted on 01/14/2022 2:09:23 PM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: sten
Do you think tourists are subject to the jurisdiction of the US just by setting foot into the country?

Yes they are. Violate our law and you can go to jail, regardless of nationality. Again, do you really not know what 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' actually means?

103 posted on 01/14/2022 2:10:49 PM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: Trailerpark Badass
Yes, around 30 do, but most require the parents to be present in the country legally, usually with some kind of official resident status, not birth tourists or criminal invaders.

None of them have our Constitution.

104 posted on 01/14/2022 2:12:43 PM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
-- Do you know know what 'jurisdiction' means? --

Arguing what that means is the point of this line of conversation. "Subject to the jurisdiction" doesn't have an agreed meaning.

The "to the point of absurdity" fact I noted is that everybody in the world is subject to US jurisdiction even if they do not set foot in the US, if the US decides to go after them. E.g., Julian Assange, who may have set foot in the US, but is under threat of extradition for activities undertaken while he was NOT in the US.

Is Assange subject to the jurisdiction of the US? I understand this point does not lead to a conclusion he is a citizen. "Subject to the jurisdiction" is only one of the prongs to the 14th amendment route to citizenship.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

105 posted on 01/14/2022 2:29:39 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: Jim Noble

You’re confusing territorial jurisdiction with political jurisdiction, i.e., nationality.

Read John Eastman’s clearly elucidated amicus curiae brief on this in the case of Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, and his similar testimony to Congress.

https://ashbrook.org/viewpoint/oped-eastman-04-hamdi/

Which is simply the tip of the iceberg, but it’s a start, and it’s correct.


106 posted on 01/14/2022 2:43:30 PM PST by Regulator (It's fraud, Jim)
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To: DoodleDawg

incorrect.

a tourist violating a country’s criminal law would still be represented by their nation’s embassy.

do you think tourists can be called for jury duty? drafted? no. why? because they are not under the jurisdiction of the country.

illegals essentially fall into the tourist category. the country that has jurisdiction over them is the one they have LEGAL residence within. illegals cannot legally have a residence within the US therefore the country of their legal residence would be whatever country they came from.

this isn’t rocket science unless you’re doing mental gymnastics to make allowances for illegals.


107 posted on 01/14/2022 6:38:40 PM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style )
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To: Cboldt
"Subject to the jurisdiction" doesn't have an agreed meaning.

Consult any legal dictionary and they are all going to have pretty much the same definition.

108 posted on 01/15/2022 5:16:25 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: sten
a tourist violating a country’s criminal law would still be represented by their nation’s embassy.

Perhaps. But that is irrelevant to whether or not their citizen is charged and jailed.

do you think tourists can be called for jury duty? drafted? no. why? because they are not under the jurisdiction of the country.

Incorrect. They can't be called for jury duty or be conscripted because they are not citizens of the country.

this isn’t rocket science unless you’re doing mental gymnastics to make allowances for illegals.

Apparently it is.

109 posted on 01/15/2022 5:20:32 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg

Off the top of my head, Jurisdiciton - right venue for a trial, amendable to being subject to the legal process, or similar.

But, you have a knack for being obtuse, looking past good faith remarks and arguments and falling back to simplistic legalism.


110 posted on 01/15/2022 5:30:24 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt
But, you have a knack for being obtuse, looking past good faith remarks and arguments and falling back to simplistic legalism.

What you term 'legalism' is, in fact, the law we are required to follow. "Subject to the jurisdiction" means subject to the laws of the local you are in. Citizenship or legal status doesn't change that. The reason that was included in the 14th Amendment was to exclude diplomats or other people who enjoy some form of immunity from the law. Regardless of what you or I believe, regardless of what the authors of the 14th Amendment meant, it says what it says. It was poorly written to begin with and a strong case can be made it need to be amended again. But that isn't easy.

111 posted on 01/15/2022 5:49:38 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
They can't be called for jury duty or be conscripted because they are not citizens of the country.

incorrect. people who have LEGALLY immigrated to the US and have a legal residence within the US can be called for jury duty as well as allowed to join the military or be drafted (if we had one). they do not have to currently be a citizen... just working on it.

have you ever dealt with the US embassy from outside the US? if not, maybe you should. you'll get a quick education on the subject real fast.

112 posted on 01/15/2022 6:49:31 AM PST by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style )
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To: sten
people who have LEGALLY immigrated to the US and have a legal residence within the US can be called for jury duty

Name one state where that's true.

... as well as allowed to join the military or be drafted (if we had one)

They can be allowed to enlist. The question of conscription is kind of moot but if they're allowed to enlist then they would probably be subject to the draft.

have you ever dealt with the US embassy from outside the US? if not, maybe you should. you'll get a quick education on the subject real fast.

What does that have to do with jurisdiction?

113 posted on 01/15/2022 7:25:12 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: DoodleDawg
have you ever dealt with the US embassy from outside the US?
What does that have to do with jurisdiction?

Were you to travel to foreign countries and have a family emergency presented to you, like being arrested for violating CoVID policy and sent to a 'quarantine camp', would you think to contact the US Embassy in that country, because your passport was issued from there, and has jurisdiction over your citizenship? If they fail to return your US passport, it's no great loss to you, right, because jurisdiction doesn't mean citizenship rights to you, only a country's laws do.

114 posted on 01/15/2022 11:10:56 AM PST by RideForever (One of the CoVID naturally immune control group)
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