Posted on 09/11/2017 8:26:49 AM PDT by searching123
Your paper published a Washington Post column by Marc Thiessen (Sept. 1) that claimed that the John Birch Society was anti-Semitic. When the error was brought to light by victims of this nasty falsehood, the phrase “widely believed” was added in as cover. This is dishonest and reprehensible.
First, let’s set the record straight. The Society is not and never has been anti-Semitic. In fact, when the California Senate investigated this in the early 1960s, it concluded that “our investigations have disclosed no evidence of anti-Semitism on the part of anyone connected with the John Birch Society in California, and much evidence to the effect that it opposes racism in all forms.”
This was obvious, considering the prominent Jewish leaders on the Society’s National Council from its founding. The Society has always had a policy of expelling any anti-Semitic infiltrators.
Secondly, the column praises William Buckley for having allegedly “excommunicated” JBS from the “respectable right.” Ironically, Buckley wrote in his magazine National Review that whites, as the “advanced race,” had every right to deny black people the vote.
The JBS, by contrast, published the work of black members in its own publications from its earliest days, and expelled racists. Let’s deal in facts.
Alex Newman
Coral Gables, Fla.
Are you saying I am in New York City? Then you are mistaken. I am in California.
I also am NOT a left-winger-— which is why I normally vote for conservative candidates (I voted for Reagan as Governor and then twice for Reagan as President).
What this demonstrates is your total inability to use reason, facts and logic. Your sole purpose is to attack people who express viewpoints you do not like.
It’s funny that you wrote that if the JBS did not exist, “it wouldn’t effectively change a thing”.
Apparently, you do not know that Birchers are taking credit for “educating” the American public over the past 5 decades and their educational effort made Trump’s election possible!
Furthermore, Birchers are declaring that THEIR PROGRAM is now being implemented by Trump and they are ecstatic about what they consider their success.
With respect to the left-wing groups you list:
1. Yes, ANY group which advocates or condones or facilitates violence needs to be monitored and if they participate in illegal activities — then they should be arrested and prosecuted.
2. However, most of these groups are disorganized temporary alliances of people who drop in and out - depending upon what specific issue or controversy comes up. Furthermore, none of these groups receives financial support from billionaires (as does the JBS). The JBS has existed continuously for 59 years (next month) and it has had dues-paying members and major financial contributors during all of that time.
3. In addition: the JBS has created and used a large network to promote its views. Among the resources they have employed to spread their poison:
(a) Three nationally-circulated magazines
(b) nationally syndicated radio programs
(c) a Speakers Bureau (which, at one point, was the largest in our nation)
(d) a bookstore chain (which, at one point, had several hundred outlets)
(e) a book publishing division which published or reprinted hundreds of books and pamphlets
(f) showing filmstrips in communities around our country and selling videotapes and audio cassettes
(g) creation of at least 15 front-groups
(h) a major professional website - along with links to associated blogs
(i) creation of Robert Welch University
(j) tens of thousands of dues-paying members (in the U.S. and in foreign countries) who promote JBS views all over the the U.S. and the world
In addition — hundreds of people who started out as JBS members (and were “educated” by the JBS) then created their own organizations and/or publications and websites.
Furthermore: the JBS has always been able to attract as members and as endorsers and as major financial contributors — exceptionally influential and prominent Americans.
Do you know of any Governor or U.S. Congressperson in our country who is a member of Workers World Party? or Antifa? or BAMN? or IWW?
Do you know of any retired FBI Special Agents who now belong to any of those groups?
Do you know of any former Chief Justice of a state Supreme Court OR any former Dean of a major university law school who is a member of any of the groups you mention?
Do you know of any major newspaper publisher in our country who is a member?
Do you know of any former Secretary of the Navy or the head of any other branch of our military who is a member of these groups?
How many CEO’s of major American corporations can you name as members of these organizations?
I think your focus is on “the left” because of your personal political preferences — which is fine — but you are mistaken if you think that the JBS is not a significant force in our society.
But it is totally understandable why you would not be aware of the impact which the JBS has — for several reasons. Briefly:
1. VERY often, Birchers do NOT acknowledge their membership.
2. Our news media rarely reports on JBS activities — AND — often when JBS speakers appear at events around our country, they are not even identified as being JBS members.
3. Historically, our academic community has generally ignored the JBS (and most other extreme right organizations). In fact — during the past 40 years, there has been only ONE book written about the JBS.
4. Lastly, (and perhaps most importantly), the JBS does NOT allow outside independent researchers to have access to its archives for research purposes. In addition, the JBS does NOT permit outside independent researchers to have access to its membership (for anonymous surveys).
Consequently, factual knowledge about the JBS and its activities and its membership — and the impact which the JBS has had on our national life is mostly speculation.
Papa Bear — you obviously have no knowledge of history.
1. One of the most anti-semitic screeds in history was written by Karl Marx.
2. Most Jews are not Marxists and most anti-semitism is NOT “code for anti-Marxism”.
3. It would take more time than I have right now to address all the falsehoods contained in your comment but I suggest that you review some of the FBI investigative files which pertain to how Jews were treated in the Soviet Union (and other “Marxist” countries).
You can start with this one:
Bigots like yourself have no real knowledge about Jews or Marxism.
Historians have pointed out (and this has been confirmed by our FBI and by the House Committee on Un-American Activities and by U.S. Senate committees who have investigated this matter), the following FBI quote reflects the actual truth about this subject:
“It is a matter of record that numerous Communist Party leaders call themselves Jews and claim a Jewish origin. This does not, however, make them Jews, any more than William Z. Foster’s Catholic background and Earl Browder’s Protestant background give them any standing in present-day Catholic and Protestant communities in the United States. One highly placed Party leader recently pointed out that it was necessary for communists working in Jewish groups to represent themselves as Jews. This, of course, is a tactical maneuver.” ...
“One Party member after having been in the Party for 25 years and having held high Party offices, explained to our agents that when he joined the Party he had renounced the existence of God, that he had tried to impose on others his atheistic views, and that he was ‘not a religious Jew’. He flatly stated that most Party members he knew who claimed to be Jews did not follow their religion; they did not attend the synagogue...and the comrades who claimed to be Jews took no part in organized Jewish religious activities.”...
“In the Soviet Union, Zionism is ruthlessly suppressed. In the United States communists have a more complex problem and avoid direct public attacks on the Zionist movement so as not to alienate that large section of Jewish people who favor Zionism...The aim of course is to discredit the Zionist movement without antagonizing its rank-and-file members. The Party line changes from time to time when it is expedient, but the communist objective of eventually destroying Zionist influence among the Jewish people, without alienating its rank-and-file members, has never changed.”
What is wrong with you? Are you only interested in reading messages that conform to your personal opinions?
You’re virtue signaling and conservatives must be Jew haters baiting
It’s tiresome
Then you spend a whole thread pretending Jews are not really how it sadly appears most are
Go work on them
Anyone comes here to bigot bait has an agenda
I’m going to go out on a big limb and conjure for entertainment
You’re a reasonable Jew who can’t help but not cotton to the anti American anti Christian tripe most of your fellow chosen do but shucks it still gnaws at you that behind every conservative Christian voter is a potential Nazi especially if they have my drawl
And you conveniently ignore we are the best pals on earth your fellow Jews in Israel have
Jews who unlike those in Beverly Hills or Scarsdale or Turnberry they actually do live in danger for being Jews in a dangerous nutty neighborhood and we as redneck Christians support a hawk Israel far more than libtard Jews here do
So bugger off
This ain’t a zoo for you to come view foreign animals and point fingers and shirk your own issues
(You asked)
My mistake, I had you confused with a different kook. You're the Palm Springs kook.
"I also am NOT a left-winger-—"
No one seems quite sure what you are, other than someone obsessed with minutiae about the John Birch Society that no one else cares about.
See if this sounds familiar:
For more than 35 years I have been acquiring FBI (and other agency) files and documents via Freedom of Information Act requests. Of particular interest to me have been those persons and organizations who espouse a conspiracy explanation of current events and past historical developments---such as the John Birch Society.
As I learned more about the intellectual history of right-wing conspiracy arguments, I realized that I would need to pursue research on more than 2000 persons, organizations, publications, and controversies.
Altogether, I have received about 600,000 pages of documents and quite often I have been the first person to request and receive these files and documents. (In March 2007, the FBI informed me that I had submitted approximately 8900 FOIA requests during the preceding 28 years).
Well, Garth, you are wrong on multiple counts.
1. First, the only reason I was posting under different names here is because I was having login problems — perhaps because I purchased new computers twice in a 2 year period — and I didn’t remember all my previous information.
2. Second, I respect and welcome principled debate about any subject and I have posted hundreds of messages online about all sorts of subject matters.
3. Third — with respect to my interest in the JBS — what you apparently do not know is this:
(a) The JBS is one of the very few right-wing or extreme right organizations in our country that has survived for over 5 decades. Most of the organizations created in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s are now defunct. Examples: Minutemen, Americanism Educational League, Christian Crusade, American Council of Christian Laymen, Church League of America, Americans For Constitutional Action, Congress of Freedom, National Economic Council, National Renaissance Party, National States Rights Party, Patriots Leadership Conference, Posse Comitatus, Soldiers of the Cross, Liberty Lobby, Liberty and Property Inc., United White People’s Party, We-The Mothers Mobilize For America, and literally DOZENS of others.
(b) Very few extreme right organizations ever received significant income — and certainly not the MILLIONS of dollars which the JBS had available almost every year of its existence. Even fewer extreme right organizations were able to boast that they had several BILLIONAIRES as members and as regular financial contributors.
(c) NONE of the other extreme right organizations were able (like the JBS) to create a very large Speakers Bureau and a very large bookstore chain — nor did those other organizations create a subsidiary which published or reprinted and sold HUNDREDS of book titles.
(d) NONE of those other extreme right organizations ever created a University —as did the JBS (Robert Welch University) and NONE of them published a weekly or bi-weekly news magazine plus a monthly magazine whose circulation was in the tens of thousands.
(e) Consequently, the JBS is an exceptionally UNIQUE presence in our country and it has attracted as members or as endorsers, and as speakers and writers — scores of exceptionally prominent people — some of whom you would probably be shocked to discover. EXAMPLE: Warren Buffet’s father (Cong. Howard Buffet) was a JBS member. So was the grandson of President Teddy Roosevelt AND the JBS also had numerous major political figures involved in the JBS.
(f) None of this may be of interest to you — but there is very little factual knowledge available about the history or impact of the JBS — because
(1) many of its members do not acknowledge that they are JBS members and
(2) the JBS does not allow outside independent researchers to have access to its archives or its membership for research purposes.
HOWEVER: there are some instances when you will see JBS members around the country posting inflammatory or intolerant messages online on many different websites (including here in FR) and, often, their messages contain total falsehoods.
I believe that facts matter. Accurate history matters.
I also believe that falsehoods circulated by political extremists should be challenged so that our fellow countrymen do not believe those falsehoods-—particularly when they are disseminated by political extremists (left or right).
I still maintain that if I posted messages which YOU believed conformed to your personal political preferences, then you would NEVER raise ANY concern about my messages.
So what is your point Pelham? You oppose anybody who has spent decades studying a particular subject?
FYI: My research has been cited by numerous historians, political scientists, journalists, and researchers in their books, articles, doctoral dissertations, and academic conference papers.
WHY?
Because, in many instances, I have been the first person to discover information which I then shared publicly.
EXAMPLE: I was the first person to find and release FBI files which contained statistical information regarding the number of live informants which the FBI had inside the Communist Party USA.
I also am the first (and often the only) person to obtain FBI personnel files about senior FBI employees (Assistant Directors, Section Chiefs, and Supervisors) as well as files on specific units within the FBI (such as the Domestic Intelligence Division). In MANY cases, those files contained previously classified (i.e “secret” and “top secret”) information about various internal security-related matters AND about FBI procedures and policies.
I also am the first person to obtain and post online FBI files about many of its informants inside the CPUSA and within other organizations.
I also am the first person to post online many previously unknown FBI monographs which were used as training material for its Special Agents.
As this is being written, a major portion of my paper FBI files (which I obtained from the FBI from 1981 to about 2010) are being digitized so that they may be posted online as pdf files. Altogether, there are about 300,000 pages in those files.
I am providing all this at absolutely NO COST to everybody — so that all interested parties will have access to a vast amount of research material which, in many cases, is no longer available because the FBI has now destroyed those files OR those files are now at NARA — and, unfortunately, almost nobody could afford to obtain medium or large files because of the cost (NARA charges 80 cents PER PAGE for copies of documents).
You can see more here:
https://archive.org/details/lazarfoia?and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22collection%22&sort=titleSorter
As of this morning over 680,000 people have accessed the FBI files which I have posted online — in just this ONE webpage.
I have a second webpage which contains even more government agency files along with other material. But, again, all this is provided AT NO COST to everybody interested.
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? Except moan and groan and bitch about what other people do?
Wardaddy: I seriously doubt that any significant number of people here in FR subscribe to your bigotry regarding Jews.
Notice that unlike yourself, I posted a link to documentary evidence to substantiate what I wrote. What do you provide? Nothing but your personal venom and bile.
Lastly — I am not “a Jew” — but that summarizes exactly what is wrong with you — i.e. totally devoid of rationality and facts.
Shame on you!
When do you think I was “banned” and for what reason?
My point? Probably what everyone else notices about you- you’re a kook with an obsession.
Garth — you just deliberately LIED.
Here is what I originally wrote:
“First, the only reason I was posting under different names here is because I was having login problems — perhaps because I purchased new computers twice in a 2 year period — and I didn’t remember all my previous information.”
Notice I did not mention anything about “lost my passwords”. YOU just INVENTED THAT from your own bile against me.
Shame on you! Why can’t you just be civil and admit that your REAL antagonism against me is just because I posted a message about the Birch Society.
What is my “obsession”? YOU post messages all the time here. Are YOU “obsessed”?
Incidentally, I just reviewed my history here since 2013.
Here are just SOME of the subject matters which I have discussed (which proves how completely wrong you and my other critics are)
1. Eustace Mullins
2. Willis Carto
3. Martin Luther King Jr.
4. Highlander Folk School
5. our Civil Rights Movement
6. Sen. Joseph McCarthy
7. Water Fluoridation
Also — since you bring up my posting messages on the JBS and you describe that as my “obsession”: you will notice that in almost every instance, my replies were submitted to articles posted by OTHER people, i.e. THEY introduced the subject of the Birch Society.
With respect to claims that nobody is interested in that subject matter: it is significant that the various JBS threads where I posted a message in reply to whoever began the discussion -— DOZENS of people then submitted their own replies.
IF you were intellectually honest (which you are not) — you would candidly recognize that you just misrepresented my history here.
Lastly, I would like to point out for the record, that YOU have a habit of posting your personal opinions here which, in many cases, are factually erroneous.
Apparently that is the REAL reason for your antipathy towards me because I am someone who usually recognizes your B/S — so I provide specific contradictory evidence AND you don’t want to be corrected.
So what? Were some of the American founders not slave owners? Are the Republicans and Democrats not jammed with controlling lying corrupt individuals who only exist to line their own pockets with power and cash?
Tell me, why are so many Jews leftist?
Are there any JBS members younger than 93?
Well, Dragnet, there is a lot to respond to in your message.
Here are my initial thoughts:
1. Why are so many Jews “leftist”?
My reply is this: Why are so you obsessed with “Jews”?
EXAMPLE: Do you have the SAME concern regarding the 99.9% of white Protestant Christians who were members or supporters of white supremacist organizations — including KKK, Americans For the Preservation of the White Race, National States Rights Party, American Nazi Party?
2. Historically, ANY group which experiences oppression and discrimination and prejudice usually gravitates toward groups or parties which promise to enact significant reforms. Opponents of such reforms usually don’t receive much support from the victims.
3. Historically, groups which experience systematic and pervasive discrimination and prejudice (or even physical attacks) tend to favor political parties and political organizations which have a record of standing up for those victims. “Standing up” can include a variety of behavior — ranging from public statements bring attention to the problem, support for specific legislative proposals, voting, appointing the targeted minorities into positions where they have input about the matters which most directly affect their community etc.
3. Similarly, persons, groups, or entities which routinely OPPOSE remedies for victims of discrimination or prejudice AND/OR which OPPOSE remedial actions (such as needed legislation) AND/OR which OPPOSE bringing victims into positions of power or influence AND/OR which routinely seek to discredit and disparage the victims and de-legitimize their arguments -— usually do NOT receive much support from those victims.
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